attempt to debunk misperceptions about direct entry

[Gennaver]

Hello,

Wow, its hard to believe that I am an academic year away from graduation! It is definately hard yet I know that is true for all entry to nursing programs, (be them ADN, BSN or MSN!)

Just now I replied to another thread and really liked how simple the reply made the concept of entry to nursing MSN degrees and want to use it as its own post with the header that is above.

I've encountered so many misperceptions from all varying aspects about these programs. I am not talking about NP programs or Nurse specialists programs nor advanced practice nursing degrees.

This thread is SOLEY about MSN-entry or Graduate Entry Programs, thank you.

[paste-my own words]

Just the other day a University told me that I would not qualify for their post master's certificate program because I will not have a BSN, I didn't bother to share with her the irony, that she was basically saying the equivalent that any BSN student wouldn't qualify for a program that requires an RN because they did not have their ADN first. Your entry to nursing degree is the one where you earn your RN.

The MSN entry programs are raising the bar on the entry level to practice and I am ALL for it!!! My MSN is not a specialist, just as a BSN isn't specialist either, if I want that then I go for Post Master's certificates, which I intend to do, (multiples yet, not until I am building my clinical proficiency).

Gen

[endpaste]

Hopefully the broader minds will embrace this concept.

Gen

[Gennaver, MSN]

Let's keep this thread on target. Generalist MSN entry programs are here and the nursing community needs to decide how to best utilize them.

Gennaver - I know from other threads that you plan to go into the military after you graduate. However, if you didn't go into the military; then what type of jobs does the generalist-MSN entry prepare you for? Is it any different than a new-grad BSN or new-grad ADN?

Please excuse my ignorance, as I'm just very curious about this. I truly wish my circumstances had been different and I had been able to do an ADN to MSN, but in the end, I got what I wanted, so it all worked out.

Thanks...

TaumaRUs,

Your questions are truly welcomed and respected.

Since all of us do have individual motivations and hopes post graduation, (again regardless of our degree of entry) there are many options. All new graduate entry MSN/RNs start out just as any new nurse graduate in regards to their need for orientation and preceptorship towards working as a Nurse.

There is only one MSN entry student that I know personally who has no intention of ever working bedside, her intentions are soley research.

Just as some hospitals will not hire new grad BSN for ER or Critical Care, some will not hire any new nurse, (MSN either) for those roles. Yet, some will.

In my case I do hope to both join the military, (and with them my first year minimum will be as a medical surgical bedside nurse before I am eligible to train for Critical Care, Emergency care, Oncology or Perioperative).

Something that struck me about the "almost" thread hijacking comment earlier is that when I was first working towards the BSN-which I morphed into my pre-reqs for the MSN- I had several nurse coworkers who would often say that the BSN was worthless. Many questioned its worth too stating that "you'll be doing the same job as me but, will be burdened with Charge nurse duties and not get paid for it!"

Even my own physician asked me why I was going for the MSN entry and I replied that since I was accepted to start the same fall at a two year junior college and the MSN entry that I didn't want to limit myself.

Here is another link from the AACN on the impact of education on nursing practice:

http://www.aacn.nche.edu/Media/FactSheets/ImpactEdNP.htm

edited to add: [sorry that I am so wordy in this...the above link is regarding level of education to entry which I am sure is not new to you, the MSN entry follows the same philosophy yet, there is no research for it as with BSN yet]

Currently I am in the process of trying to write a proposal to research this and to try make a clear focus.

Just as ADNs and BSNs hope to further their education beyond their degress it is logical to consider that many MSN entry students also want to futher their education too.

Gen

[Nemhain]

I hope this isn't off-topic, but I'm a little confused by this John Hopkins site about their MSN.

http://www.son.jhmi.edu/academics/academic_programs/bacc/BS_MSN/

Look under the section titled:

Why a BS and MSN instead of a regular master's program?

One of the bullets states:

Employment in many government and military organizations require nurses to have a BS in nursing in addition to an MSN.

Does this mean that someone with a direct-entry MSN would not be considered for some jobs without the BSN, even though an MSN was obtained??????

[traumaRUs, MSN, APRN]

This brings up the very valid point that those with an MSN as the direct-entry degree are still considered "new grads" and need experience in order to "grow" into their degree.

[Gennaver, MSN]

I hope this isn't off-topic, but I'm a little confused by this John Hopkins site about their MSN.

http://www.son.jhmi.edu/academics/academic_programs/bacc/BS_MSN/

Look under the section titled:

Why a BS and MSN instead of a regular master's program?

One of the bullets states:

Employment in many government and military organizations require nurses to have a BS in nursing in addition to an MSN.

Does this mean that someone with a direct-entry MSN would not be considered for some jobs without the BSN, even though an MSN was obtained??????

Hi,

I have also come across some updated sites which outright state that the minimum degree acceptable is a BSN or an MSN, (without a pre-qualifying Bachellor's).

What it seems to me is that there is some lag time in this being recognized. The governmental website that I first read the "MSN without a prequalifying BSN" was very new, (it was for some Public Health Nurse positions, I have the link somewhere and will have to dig it up now too for my research idea_.

Precedence is being set and that could be that in many areas is has not yet been addressed.

It is ironic though because if you scale it back it is similar to stating that, (pasting and modifying)

{Employment in many government and military organizations require nurses to have a ADN in nursing in addition to an BSN.}

When you read it that way it shows how absurd the idea is, doesn't it?

Gen

[sunnyjohn]

Hello TramaRUS,

If Gen doesn't mind I will attempt to answer a few of the questions posed about the direct-entry generalist MSN.

Let's keep this thread on target. Generalist MSN entry programs are here and the nursing community needs to decide how to best utilize them.

then what type of jobs does the generalist-MSN entry prepare you for?

The directy-enty generalist MSN graduate is prepared for the new grad RN role at the bedside. Although the MSN training may include advance theoretical nursing studies, the clincial and theortical studies are not geared toward advanced practice Nursing.

Is it any different than a new-grad BSN or new-grad ADN?

The graduate of the generalist direct-entry MSN is much like the BSN, ADN or diploma graduate. Clinical skill level is the same. Clincal program time is the same. The new graduate is prepared for enty level practice as a bedside nurse. They are also prepared for clnical internships in specailty areas.

[sunnyjohn]

The direct-entry generalist is an awesome opportuntiy for many to enter the practice of nursing. I have found that many reasons why people coose the option.

1. Some people find that they cannot get financial aid to pursue a second Bachelor's degree, but they can get funds for a graduate program. The direct-entry progam allows many to find the funds to change professions.

2. Many people have a life-long ambition to obtain a Master's degree. The direct-entry allows them to pursue a nursing career change and this educational goal.

3. Many people already have advanced graduate degrees in their present profession. The direct-entry MSN generalist allows them to pursue a similar level of education.

The degee allows potential graduates to bring past experiences and ideas with them into nursing.

[sunnyjohn]

This brings up the very valid point that those with an MSN as the direct-entry degree are still considered "new grads" and need experience in order to "grow" into their degree.

Yes, they sure do.

CNL aside, the direct-entry MSN generalist is savvy enough to realise that critical thinking skills and clincial expertise are best developed over time at the bedside. The recognise that experienced bedside nurse preceptors remain the best resource for clinical career development after graduation. With a few years of bedside experience the graduate is more than prepared to assume the additional repsonsibilites.

[sunnyjohn]

I'm sorry, but I will never understand how someone with no nursing experience can go to school and somehow be deemed master's-prepared, and a better nurse than someone with years of experience and a somewhat different educational background. Never having approached the bar on entry level to practice, you have no real concept of raising it other than what you've heard from the ivory tower.

No matter how much anyone tries to justify it, I can't see this as a reasonable response to nursing needs. My mind's plenty broad. It's just not cavernous enough to accept every piece of foolery that's laid across it.

Generalist pograms do not teach that they are "better" than any other new graduate. They are not.

Direct-entry MSN generalist students hold the title of "generalist", nothing else. They are taught that they must put in their time at the beside learning from experiencd nurse preceptors before they can begin to presume the skill level needed to assume extra responsibilities.

A new direct-entry MSN generalist on your floor would function just as any other new grad from an ADN, BSN or Diploma program.

The MSN simply means that at some point in the future the nurse already has the educational credentials to assume ceratin advanced general nursing resonsibilities.

[traumaRUs, MSN, APRN]

Sunnyjohn - thanks so much for the info - I really appreciate it. With some of these new programs, it is hard to keep each of them straight in my mind.

Thanks again....btw are you in an MSN entry?

[romie]

The direct-entry generalist is an awesome opportuntiy for many to enter the practice of nursing. I have found that many reasons why people coose the option.

1. Some people find that they cannot get financial aid to pursue a second Bachelor's degree, but they can get funds for a graduate program. The direct-entry progam allows many to find the funds to change professions.

2. Many people have a life-long ambition to obtain a Master's degree. The direct-entry allows them to pursue a nursing career change and this educational goal.

3. Many people already have advanced graduate degrees in their present profession. The direct-entry MSN generalist allows them to pursue a similar level of education.

The degee allows potential graduates to bring past experiences and ideas with them into nursing.

Thanks for the concise explaination that I have been trying to give other people!

[Gennaver, MSN]

Hello TramaRUS,

If Gen doesn't mind I will attempt to answer a few of the questions posed about the direct-entry generalist MSN.

The directy-enty generalist MSN graduate is prepared for the new grad RN role at the bedside. Although the MSN training may include advance theoretical nursing studies, the clincial and theortical studies are not geared toward advanced practice Nursing.

.

Hello Sunnyjohn,

Welcome and thank you for your contributions.

Gen

[jov]

With the direct-entry MSN programs getting lots of publicity, I just have to ask how do these students decide what they want to do? Just curious - thanks for the answers.

I think I can answer that, at least for some students. Not everyone who does direct-entry MSN programs is a person with no RN experience or no healthcare experience at all. If I had my druthers (read: "lots of money") I would go directly from the BSN to the MSN program...because I have 7 years experience as an EMS provider, including ACLS certified paramedic, EMT instructor, etc. In addition, I spent 7 years as a healthcare provider in a private physician's office, and 2 years in the County Coroner's office. I have been around long enough to know primary care is my thing. I would be just oh so happy to sit in an office from 9 to 5 and look at sore throats. Love ER work but am getting to old to put up with that nonsense.

I would conclude by saying some people doing direct entry really have a quite well defined picture of where they want to end up.