attempt to debunk misperceptions about direct entry - page 2

Hello, Wow, its hard to believe that I am an academic year away from graduation! It is definately hard yet I know that is true for all entry to nursing programs, (be them ADN, BSN or MSN!) Just... Read More

  1. by   Nemhain
    I hope this isn't off-topic, but I'm a little confused by this John Hopkins site about their MSN.
    http://www.son.jhmi.edu/academics/ac...s/bacc/BS_MSN/

    Look under the section titled:
    Why a BS and MSN instead of a regular master's program?
    One of the bullets states:
    Employment in many government and military organizations require nurses to have a BS in nursing in addition to an MSN.

    Does this mean that someone with a direct-entry MSN would not be considered for some jobs without the BSN, even though an MSN was obtained??????
  2. by   traumaRUs
    This brings up the very valid point that those with an MSN as the direct-entry degree are still considered "new grads" and need experience in order to "grow" into their degree.
  3. by   Gennaver
    Quote from Nemhain
    I hope this isn't off-topic, but I'm a little confused by this John Hopkins site about their MSN.
    http://www.son.jhmi.edu/academics/ac...s/bacc/BS_MSN/

    Look under the section titled:
    Why a BS and MSN instead of a regular master's program?
    One of the bullets states:
    Employment in many government and military organizations require nurses to have a BS in nursing in addition to an MSN.

    Does this mean that someone with a direct-entry MSN would not be considered for some jobs without the BSN, even though an MSN was obtained??????
    Hi,
    I have also come across some updated sites which outright state that the minimum degree acceptable is a BSN or an MSN, (without a pre-qualifying Bachellor's).

    What it seems to me is that there is some lag time in this being recognized. The governmental website that I first read the "MSN without a prequalifying BSN" was very new, (it was for some Public Health Nurse positions, I have the link somewhere and will have to dig it up now too for my research idea_.

    Precedence is being set and that could be that in many areas is has not yet been addressed.

    It is ironic though because if you scale it back it is similar to stating that, (pasting and modifying)

    {Employment in many government and military organizations require nurses to have a ADN in nursing in addition to an BSN.}

    When you read it that way it shows how absurd the idea is, doesn't it?

    Gen
  4. by   sunnyjohn
    Hello TramaRUS,

    If Gen doesn't mind I will attempt to answer a few of the questions posed about the direct-entry generalist MSN.


    Quote from traumaRUs
    Let's keep this thread on target. Generalist MSN entry programs are here and the nursing community needs to decide how to best utilize them.
    then what type of jobs does the generalist-MSN entry prepare you for?
    The directy-enty generalist MSN graduate is prepared for the new grad RN role at the bedside. Although the MSN training may include advance theoretical nursing studies, the clincial and theortical studies are not geared toward advanced practice Nursing.
    Is it any different than a new-grad BSN or new-grad ADN?
    The graduate of the generalist direct-entry MSN is much like the BSN, ADN or diploma graduate. Clinical skill level is the same. Clincal program time is the same. The new graduate is prepared for enty level practice as a bedside nurse. They are also prepared for clnical internships in specailty areas.
    Last edit by sunnyjohn on Sep 15, '06
  5. by   sunnyjohn
    The direct-entry generalist is an awesome opportuntiy for many to enter the practice of nursing. I have found that many reasons why people coose the option.

    1. Some people find that they cannot get financial aid to pursue a second Bachelor's degree, but they can get funds for a graduate program. The direct-entry progam allows many to find the funds to change professions.

    2. Many people have a life-long ambition to obtain a Master's degree. The direct-entry allows them to pursue a nursing career change and this educational goal.

    3. Many people already have advanced graduate degrees in their present profession. The direct-entry MSN generalist allows them to pursue a similar level of education.

    The degee allows potential graduates to bring past experiences and ideas with them into nursing.
    Last edit by sunnyjohn on Sep 15, '06
  6. by   sunnyjohn
    Quote from traumaRUs
    This brings up the very valid point that those with an MSN as the direct-entry degree are still considered "new grads" and need experience in order to "grow" into their degree.
    Yes, they sure do.

    CNL aside, the direct-entry MSN generalist is savvy enough to realise that critical thinking skills and clincial expertise are best developed over time at the bedside. The recognise that experienced bedside nurse preceptors remain the best resource for clinical career development after graduation. With a few years of bedside experience the graduate is more than prepared to assume the additional repsonsibilites.
    Last edit by sunnyjohn on Sep 15, '06
  7. by   sunnyjohn
    I'm sorry, but I will never understand how someone with no nursing experience can go to school and somehow be deemed master's-prepared, and a better nurse than someone with years of experience and a somewhat different educational background. Never having approached the bar on entry level to practice, you have no real concept of raising it other than what you've heard from the ivory tower.

    No matter how much anyone tries to justify it, I can't see this as a reasonable response to nursing needs. My mind's plenty broad. It's just not cavernous enough to accept every piece of foolery that's laid across it.
    Generalist pograms do not teach that they are "better" than any other new graduate. They are not.

    Direct-entry MSN generalist students hold the title of "generalist", nothing else. They are taught that they must put in their time at the beside learning from experiencd nurse preceptors before they can begin to presume the skill level needed to assume extra responsibilities.

    A new direct-entry MSN generalist on your floor would function just as any other new grad from an ADN, BSN or Diploma program.

    The MSN simply means that at some point in the future the nurse already has the educational credentials to assume ceratin advanced general nursing resonsibilities.
    Last edit by sunnyjohn on Sep 15, '06
  8. by   traumaRUs
    Sunnyjohn - thanks so much for the info - I really appreciate it. With some of these new programs, it is hard to keep each of them straight in my mind.

    Thanks again....btw are you in an MSN entry?
  9. by   romie
    Quote from sunnyjohn
    The direct-entry generalist is an awesome opportuntiy for many to enter the practice of nursing. I have found that many reasons why people coose the option.

    1. Some people find that they cannot get financial aid to pursue a second Bachelor's degree, but they can get funds for a graduate program. The direct-entry progam allows many to find the funds to change professions.

    2. Many people have a life-long ambition to obtain a Master's degree. The direct-entry allows them to pursue a nursing career change and this educational goal.

    3. Many people already have advanced graduate degrees in their present profession. The direct-entry MSN generalist allows them to pursue a similar level of education.

    The degee allows potential graduates to bring past experiences and ideas with them into nursing.
    Thanks for the concise explaination that I have been trying to give other people!
  10. by   Gennaver
    Quote from sunnyjohn
    Hello TramaRUS,

    If Gen doesn't mind I will attempt to answer a few of the questions posed about the direct-entry generalist MSN.

    The directy-enty generalist MSN graduate is prepared for the new grad RN role at the bedside. Although the MSN training may include advance theoretical nursing studies, the clincial and theortical studies are not geared toward advanced practice Nursing.
    .
    Hello Sunnyjohn,

    Welcome and thank you for your contributions.

    Gen
  11. by   jov
    Quote from traumaRUs
    With the direct-entry MSN programs getting lots of publicity, I just have to ask how do these students decide what they want to do? Just curious - thanks for the answers.
    I think I can answer that, at least for some students. Not everyone who does direct-entry MSN programs is a person with no RN experience or no healthcare experience at all. If I had my druthers (read: "lots of money") I would go directly from the BSN to the MSN program...because I have 7 years experience as an EMS provider, including ACLS certified paramedic, EMT instructor, etc. In addition, I spent 7 years as a healthcare provider in a private physician's office, and 2 years in the County Coroner's office. I have been around long enough to know primary care is my thing. I would be just oh so happy to sit in an office from 9 to 5 and look at sore throats. Love ER work but am getting to old to put up with that nonsense.
    I would conclude by saying some people doing direct entry really have a quite well defined picture of where they want to end up.
  12. by   romie
    I finally had the opportunity to meet my classmates for a direct entry program that begins in Jan 07 during a 2 day orientation session. I really wish the naysayers of direct entry could meet my classmates, as they are not your typical straight out of highschool going to community college student. Here is what I learned:

    1. Out of 40 students, more than a quater of the students have master's degrees, in fields including public health, sociology, and psychology-- all very very useful in nursing!

    2. More than 10% were currently involved in conducting research. They held positions as researchers or research assistants.

    3. Most were successful in their current field of work.

    4. With few exception, these were among the most articulate and intelligent human beings I have ever met and they would not have been out of place on an ivy league campus.

    It is these qualities in the students that enable direct entry programs to exist. They truely find the best and brightest students and provide them with incredibly intense learning experiences that traditional nurses students couldn't handle.
  13. by   Gennaver
    Quote from Nemhain
    I hope this isn't off-topic, but I'm a little confused by this John Hopkins site about their MSN.
    http://www.son.jhmi.edu/academics/ac...s/bacc/BS_MSN/

    Look under the section titled:
    Why a BS and MSN instead of a regular master's program?
    One of the bullets states:
    Employment in many government and military organizations require nurses to have a BS in nursing in addition to an MSN.

    Does this mean that someone with a direct-entry MSN would not be considered for some jobs without the BSN, even though an MSN was obtained??????
    Hello,
    Sadly I just found out that yes, that is exactly what that means.

    After having spent 6+ weeks on my application packet for the Active Duty Army as an Army Nurse Candidate, (usually grandted to junior and senior BSN students) AND with the Colonol of the Army medical department writing an appeal, my application packet was rejected immediately.

    The Army will NOT recognize my degree. I am tryign for Active Duty...

    Thing is, the Army will grant waivers for criminals yet, will not grant waivers for MSN entry nurses.

    I was told it will take "years and years and years" before they change the terminology and that they may not even change it at that.

    So, if you have any hopes of a military career you are wasting your time, energy and money on the MSN entry.

    I asked my undergraduate institution if there was any way that they could confur the BSN to me and was told, "why? your MSN supercedes it", so I am going to try to ask them again, otherwise, I am not eligible for Military duty.

    Again, Criminals are granted waivers yet MSN entry students are NOT!

    Learned it the hard way,
    Gen
    edite to add: just posted an update http://allnurses.com/forums/1873057-post1.html thank you
    Last edit by Gennaver on Oct 10, '06

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