Drug seeking or real pain? How do you tell? - page 8

I'm a new nurse on the list so please pardon my ignorance. I was quite interested in the pain links and explored several and probably will use some for staff training. I did not see any mention of... Read More

  1. Visit  Kanani_Ikike profile page
    0
    Quote from Josh L.Ac.
    Seriously?



    Maybe Marx was right, trading one opiate for another.

    Yes, seriously. I mean, did I make a typo or something?
  2. Visit  Josh L.Ac. profile page
    0
    Quote from Kanani_Ikike
    Yes, seriously. I mean, did I make a typo or something?
    I just wanted clarification that you think if more people believed in god, they wouldn't have chronic pain and/or be drug seeking.


    Is that really what you are saying?



    Or were you saying that calming down and meditating helps with pain, regardless of which deity [or lack thereof] people subscribe to?
  3. Visit  teeituptom profile page
    0
    Quote from Josh L.Ac.
    Seriously?



    Maybe Marx was right, trading one opiate for another.
    I think that is a derogatory statement, comparing anything the poster said to Karl Marx. Totally unacceptable
  4. Visit  Josh L.Ac. profile page
    0
    Quote from teeituptom
    I think that is a derogatory statement, comparing anything the poster said to Karl Marx. Totally unacceptable

    Why? Is Karl Marx offensive? I'm not a huge fan of his writings, but I fail to see how he is offensive.



    The OP said that belief in god would reduce pain in a thread talking about drug seeking patients. Karl Marx said that "religion is the opiate of the masses", thus my comment about trading one opiate for another.



    If anything, I find the idea that if people believed in god then their pain would just go away to be offensive.
    Last edit by Josh L.Ac. on Dec 3, '07
  5. Visit  teeituptom profile page
    0
    Quote from Josh L.Ac.
    Why? Is Karl Marx offensive? I'm not a huge fan of his writings, but I fail to see how he is offensive.



    The OP said that belief in god would reduce pain in a thread talking about drug seeking patients. Karl Marx said that "religion is the opiate of the masses", thus my comment about trading one opiate for another.



    If anything, I find the idea that if people believed in god then their pain would just go away to be offensive.
    I dont find Karl Marx offensive at all. But I know his writing very well.

    And when you take someones honest declaration of how to control his pain of a migraine, without taking drugs. Then you compare this with Karl, I find this derogatory.
  6. Visit  Josh L.Ac. profile page
    0
    Quote from teeituptom
    I dont find Karl Marx offensive at all. But I know his writing very well.

    And when you take someones honest declaration of how to control his pain of a migraine, without taking drugs. Then you compare this with Karl, I find this derogatory.
    If that is all the OP wrote, then it would be their anecdote of a method to ameliorate their migraines. A search of pubmed finds some research to support the use of meditation to reduce migraine pain/frequency and some research that shows no effect.

    Quote from Kanani_Ikike
    People need to start just taking a moment for themselves and meditating. It's always worked for me, even with my migraines. Very seldom do I have to actually pop a pain pill with a migraine. Most of the time a dark room, closed eyes, cool rag, and meditation alleviates it a little. It doesn't completely go away, but I don't strive to be pain-free. I just want the pain to subside somewhat.
    But they started their post with this:

    Quote from Kanani_Ikike
    If more people trusted in God more than they trust in man, then we wouldn't have so many in that situation. And for those that don't believe in God, they can go with their higher power.

    A search of the literature failed to find research that demonstrated belief in god reduced pain comparable to conventional treatments or reduced drug seeking behaviors.
  7. Visit  nanacarol profile page
    2
    Pain is subjective and literature indicates, if a patient says he/she is in pain we should accept that. the question is whether nurses are the "pain" police or if we are to minister to the needs of the patient. For those in the chemical dependence arenas the issue is whether there are protocols to address the pain of withdrawal ( and this is significant discomfort) or not. Pain is pain and nurses would be wise to address the compliants, finding the best intervention to meet the patient's need.
    KarenGeorgeBSRN and cmo421 like this.
  8. Visit  teeituptom profile page
    0
    Quote from nanacarol
    Pain is subjective and literature indicates, if a patient says he/she is in pain we should accept that. the question is whether nurses are the "pain" police or if we are to minister to the needs of the patient. For those in the chemical dependence arenas the issue is whether there are protocols to address the pain of withdrawal ( and this is significant discomfort) or not. Pain is pain and nurses would be wise to address the compliants, finding the best intervention to meet the patient's need.
    "Let them have tylenol"
  9. Visit  Kanani_Ikike profile page
    0
    Quote from Josh L.Ac.
    I just wanted clarification that you think if more people believed in god, they wouldn't have chronic pain and/or be drug seeking.


    Is that really what you are saying?



    Or were you saying that calming down and meditating helps with pain, regardless of which deity [or lack thereof] people subscribe to?
    Sorry, didn't mean to jack you up. Please forgive me, I have PMS.

    But to answer your question. Having religion has nothing to do with real pain. I am not saying that believing in any diety will erase real pain. Pain is pain. But what I am saying is for the people that are referred to as displaying "drug seeking" behaviors" are having some deeper issues. A lot of them are wanting an escape from the hardships of life. And since they may not be able to physically escape their situation (for example, poverty, lonliness, turmoil, etc.), they turn to mind-altering substances. That may be alcohol, they may be crack, cocaine, meth, or even legally prescribed drugs. And I am saying that if more people trusted in God, (Jehovah) or whomever they claim as their deity, life isn't so hard to handle. Man, and his coping mechanisms, shouldn't be the answer. People put too much faith in worldly things.
  10. Visit  nanacarol profile page
    2
    I have read all the responses and still say that the fact the individual has a drug problem does not negate her having pain. Nor does it mean the nurse has been duped. She perceived her pain to be 10/10 for her that is what it was. Who are we to say a drug addict does not have legitimate pain. We should educate as best we can, advocate always for the identified needs of the patient and Stop being "Pain Police. Nanacarol
    tsalagicara and KarenGeorgeBSRN like this.
  11. Visit  Valerie Salva profile page
    0
    Quote from Rapheal
    I always have my suspicions about some patients. But to keep things simple- and to perform my duties without value judgements I just accept the concept that pain is what the patient states it is and treat it according to what medications are ordered.

    It is sad however when I see people come in for bowel obstructions and need surgery and the main suspect of the bowel obstruction is constipation related to narcotic use. That is a sad consequence of narcotic use in some patients as well as other consequences. The best I am able to do is to perform teaching that people d/c'd with narcotics add fiber and extra water to their diets.
    I have worked with opiod addicted pts. We advised them to take OTC Colace. It works very well, and is cheap- and easy to shoplift- or so my addicted pts have told me.
  12. Visit  babygirl87 profile page
    0
    Quote from mittels
    one of the first things you learn is if the pt says their in pain, tx them. is it your problem that they are chemically dependant? do you have to be the savior? im sure you dont want to be sitting in a court room with 12 jurors and answering the lawyers when they ask you, how did you come to the conclussion this person was not in pain? then end up paying megga bucks because you didn't tx. would you with hold pain meds to a chemically dependant person after mayjor trauma? no! then whats to say this person does not have pain. it always upsets me to see nurses who with hold pain meds to pt's when their in pain. weather true or not, we should not judge! tx them!

    what is tx?? i am a student and am new at this website
  13. Visit  scarlet profile page
    1
    tx = treat. Reminder: Pain is what the Patient says it is.
    KarenGeorgeBSRN likes this.

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