Verbal abuse in the OR

suzanne4, RN · Aug 7, 2005

There is absolutely no reason that anyone has to "just take it."

Sorry that your administration or even the Director of the OR never stepped in before. I would never stayed have six years under that type of environment. Every place that I have worked OR in, that type of behavior would not be tolerated in to begin with. And for it to go on for that long???

grimmy, RN · Aug 7, 2005

its situations like these that make me extremely grateful for the job that i have. i guess i'm waxing poetic because i reach my 1-year anniversary in or nursing this week. i chose my first facility really well, and after seeing all of the posts like these, wow - it could really be different. when i hear that people are being yelled at and abused daily, i'm just stupefied. i work with what is considered to be one of the most "difficult" surgeons on our staff, and he's a pussycat compared to what i've read here, and heard from travel nurses i've worked with.

now, don't get me wrong: this place is far from perfect, and we've got our problems, but we nurses have a lot of ancillary staff to help us, and the surgeons and residents, on the whole, are really great. we've got travel nurses that have come back here time and time again. some have become permanent staff. i guess that says something. so...jane...there are different places, and different attitudes. don't give up. you did the right thing. i'm sure the other surgeons are looking at what happened to that ortho team and thinking, "dang...either i'd better keep my attitude straight, or get lost." and that would be right.

cursenurse · Aug 7, 2005

After only 6 years in the OR as a circulating nurse, I have burned out and retired. The surgeons have humiliated me and my collegues relentlessly. We just have to take it. Personally I felt powerless until someone in P.T. asked me to write up a certain orthopod.....gee....go figure....an orthopod! Between the both of us writing to administration, he was booted from our hospital. He took his entire ortho group and all of his patients with him. Now we are stuck with all kinds of instruments and special orthopedic helmets, batteries, etc we bought especially for them. Not to mention we enlarged an entire OR room for them at an exhorbitant expense. Does it pay to write them up? I say yes, but we need to go further with it. I've written newspaper columnists about this problem, 20/20 and MSNBC Investigates. Any other ideas from you?

your situation is the very reason that i have never considered o.r. nursing. i see that you have alerted the media, but what about your nursing management, are they aware of the problem, what have they done to solve the problem? i hate the fact that we(nurses) have to air that dirty laundry to the media, and the public, because to me it just makes us look weak, like we're whining because the big, bad surgeons are being mean to us, and there's nothing we as a profession can do, so let's expose them.

JaneRNBSN · Aug 8, 2005

your situation is the very reason that i have never considered o.r. nursing. i see that you have alerted the media, but what about your nursing management, are they aware of the problem, what have they done to solve the problem? i hate the fact that we(nurses) have to air that dirty laundry to the media, and the public, because to me it just makes us look weak, like we're whining because the big, bad surgeons are being mean to us, and there's nothing we as a profession can do, so let's expose them.

If you would read my post again, you will find that I HAVE alerted administration. I'm not sure where else I can go. Any ideas? There must be SOMEONE these spoiled little brats have to answer to.

JaneRNBSN · Aug 8, 2005

your situation is the very reason that i have never considered o.r. nursing. i see that you have alerted the media, but what about your nursing management, are they aware of the problem, what have they done to solve the problem? i hate the fact that we(nurses) have to air that dirty laundry to the media, and the public, because to me it just makes us look weak, like we're whining because the big, bad surgeons are being mean to us, and there's nothing we as a profession can do, so let's expose them.

By the way, how did you know NOT to enter OR nursing? Somebody must be talking about the abuse we suffer.

JaneRNBSN · Aug 8, 2005

its situations like these that make me extremely grateful for the job that i have. i guess i'm waxing poetic because i reach my 1-year anniversary in or nursing this week. i chose my first facility really well, and after seeing all of the posts like these, wow - it could really be different. when i hear that people are being yelled at and abused daily, i'm just stupefied. i work with what is considered to be one of the most "difficult" surgeons on our staff, and he's a pussycat compared to what i've read here, and heard from travel nurses i've worked with.
now, don't get me wrong: this place is far from perfect, and we've got our problems, but we nurses have a lot of ancillary staff to help us, and the surgeons and residents, on the whole, are really great. we've got travel nurses that have come back here time and time again. some have become permanent staff. i guess that says something. so...jane...there are different places, and different attitudes. don't give up. you did the right thing. i'm sure the other surgeons are looking at what happened to that ortho team and thinking, "dang...either i'd better keep my attitude straight, or get lost." and that would be right.

no, unfortunately, this particular surgeon is rather proud of the fact that he has taken his whole team and all of his patients away from our hospital. i had the opportunity to work with him again at a surgery center and he told me so himself! he continues to abuse staff at all of the hospitals he works at. i've worked at all 3 places and his behavior is the same....he hits the door griping about anything he can find. one morning we arrived an hour early to get his case ready. his patient was in the or, the case was opened...everything was ready. so he griped about the temperature in the room. he went so far as to call the director back and berate her in front of her staff. we had to alert maintenance the day before his total hip or knee cases to turn down the air conditioning!!!! i'm sorry, but when a surgeon hits our doors with that attitude, there is absolutely nothing we can do. we even had to take turns being in his cases, everyone hated him so much. i wrote him up for pointing his finger at me and screaming "shut the door". nothing has changed...he is still spreading his misery all over this area. i can only hope he gets hit by a bus.

cursenurse · Aug 8, 2005

By the way, how did you know NOT to enter OR nursing? Somebody must be talking about the abuse we suffer.

yes, i have heard many stories like yours. i know that nurses are talking about the abuse, but i think that the problem is that nursing administration is not doing enough to support the staff nurses who are suffering the abuse. i have a friend who works o.r. and that seems to be the case. that problem is not limited to o.r. nursing. i have worked in different facilities where the nursing management was incapable of, or unwilling to discipline/reprimand md's, or other disciplines that were disrespectful to nurses. BTW, i didn't realize that when you said that administration was involved that you meant nursing administration, sorry.

suzanne4, RN · Aug 8, 2005

Document your complaints and they can be submitted to the licensing board for your state, as well as the Orthpedic Society, or whatever it is being called now in your state. They do not like to hear of these stories. Each state Medical Society has their own review board.

But shame on the administrations that are putting up with his irrational behavior. I would just make sure that I document every single outburst, etc., as well as inappropriate actions. I would never consider working at a facility where they let the physicians get away with whatever they want. I have seen physicians let go from several well known facilities for being rude and disrespectful in the OR.

grimmy, RN · Aug 8, 2005

no, unfortunately, this particular surgeon is rather proud of the fact that he has taken his whole team and all of his patients away from our hospital. i had the opportunity to work with him again at a surgery center and he told me so himself! he continues to abuse staff at all of the hospitals he works at. i've worked at all 3 places and his behavior is the same....he hits the door griping about anything he can find. one morning we arrived an hour early to get his case ready. his patient was in the or, the case was opened...everything was ready. so he griped about the temperature in the room. he went so far as to call the director back and berate her in front of her staff. we had to alert maintenance the day before his total hip or knee cases to turn down the air conditioning!!!! i'm sorry, but when a surgeon hits our doors with that attitude, there is absolutely nothing we can do. we even had to take turns being in his cases, everyone hated him so much. i wrote him up for pointing his finger at me and screaming "shut the door". nothing has changed...he is still spreading his misery all over this area. i can only hope he gets hit by a bus.

it occured to me that maybe you could surreptitiously record him in the or, and play this for your administration. could be illegal in your state, but if not, i'd say go for it. sounds like someone who just hates life, and you're right, there's little you can do. after a while i'd just say, "go ahead. call the nm. i'll sit here and document your infantile behavior." all he'd have to do is touch me once, and i'd be dialing 911 and my attorney. i'm glad you're outta there, hon.

JaneRNBSN · Aug 8, 2005

Thank you for listening. I'm glad I'm out, too.

DidiRN · Aug 8, 2005

Your last sentence struck me, and had to respond.

Many years ago, I briefly did a stint in OR, and came across to date the meanest, rudest, nastiest physician I have ever seen and probably never will see the likes of that one again. Screamed in the OR the entire time, the tension was absolutely horrible. He would even throw his sponges on the floor deliberately, and the nurses would be crawling around the floor picking them up. He'd even throw them under the table and sterile field to make it even harder for them. Didn' t matter if you had the bucket right next to him, he'd still throw them on the floor. He would yell at EVERYONE. The case that I saw, there were over 300 sponges that he went through. Administration did nothing to stop him; too big of a moneymaker for them.

Never in my life have I seen anything like it...I shortly left after that, and about a year later, found out that this doc died in a car accident. I always wondered if that staff had a party after that.

No, unfortunately, this particular surgeon is rather proud of the fact that he has taken his whole team and all of his patients away from our hospital. I had the opportunity to work with him again at a surgery center and he told me so himself! He continues to abuse staff at all of the hospitals he works at. I've worked at all 3 places and his behavior is the same....he hits the door griping about anything he can find. One morning we arrived an hour early to get his case ready. His patient was in the OR, the case was opened...everything was ready. So he griped about the temperature in the room. He went so far as to call the director back and berate her in front of her staff. We had to alert maintenance the day before his total hip or knee cases to turn down the air conditioning!!!! I'm sorry, but when a surgeon hits our doors with that attitude, there is absolutely nothing we can do. We even had to take turns being in his cases, everyone hated him so much. I wrote him up for pointing his finger at me and screaming "SHUT THE DOOR". Nothing has changed...he is still spreading his misery all over this area. I can only hope he gets hit by a bus.