Verbal abuse in the OR

ShirleyM · Aug 12, 2005

You know, I was watching 'Baby without a face' on Discovery Health channel last night and the surgeon said intra-op (with cameras rolling) 'I need another free needle. I really don't want to wait all day for it.' I cringed as soon as I heard it and wondered if anyone else watching it picked up on it. Then I thought of the threads and posts we've had in this discussion group about verbal abuse,

or am I being overly sensitive on this?

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Aug 12, 2005

Well, can't really say he was like that because the camera was there, however, you wonder how he is when the camera isn't.

One of these days it'll get me in trouble, but we have a surgeon who thinks it's hilarious to call me a Let's Play Nurse. Did this during a C-section, pt. fully awake.

I said in a low voice "I don't degrade you, do not degrade me". Haven't worked with him since (he went on the Grand Tour in Europe), but we'll see how it goes the next time i do.

gcruz · Aug 12, 2005

:angryfire Unfortunately this goes on everywhere.With so many hospitals and surgery centers popping up we are competing now for these surgeons' business.It seems management does't really care if their employees are happy.They'll do anything and ignore alot to keep their business.

No, unfortunately, this particular surgeon is rather proud of the fact that he has taken his whole team and all of his patients away from our hospital. I had the opportunity to work with him again at a surgery center and he told me so himself! He continues to abuse staff at all of the hospitals he works at. I've worked at all 3 places and his behavior is the same....he hits the door griping about anything he can find. One morning we arrived an hour early to get his case ready. His patient was in the OR, the case was opened...everything was ready. So he griped about the temperature in the room. He went so far as to call the director back and berate her in front of her staff. We had to alert maintenance the day before his total hip or knee cases to turn down the air conditioning!!!! I'm sorry, but when a surgeon hits our doors with that attitude, there is absolutely nothing we can do. We even had to take turns being in his cases, everyone hated him so much. I wrote him up for pointing his finger at me and screaming "SHUT THE DOOR". Nothing has changed...he is still spreading his misery all over this area. I can only hope he gets hit by a bus.

cursenurse · Aug 13, 2005

Well, can't really say he was like that because the camera was there, however, you wonder how he is when the camera isn't.
One of these days it'll get me in trouble, but we have a surgeon who thinks it's hilarious to call me a Let's Play Nurse. Did this during a C-section, pt. fully awake.
I said in a low voice "I don't degrade you, do not degrade me". Haven't worked with him since (he went on the Grand Tour in Europe), but we'll see how it goes the next time i do.

i cannot believe he would say that to you. i would have written him up for that.

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Aug 13, 2005

I will if he does it again.

grimmy, RN · Aug 14, 2005

well, can't really say he was like that because the camera was there, however, you wonder how he is when the camera isn't.
one of these days it'll get me in trouble, but we have a surgeon who thinks it's hilarious to call me a let's play nurse. did this during a c-section, pt. fully awake.
i said in a low voice "i don't degrade you, do not degrade me". haven't worked with him since (he went on the grand tour in europe), but we'll see how it goes the next time i do.

:eek: wow, marie, that just makes my stomach churn. i was working with the major whiner surgeon on friday, and i wanted to clobber him, but he never called me names or degraded me. he's merely a pain in everyone's backside. i guess i should not complain again - i hope you can find someplace better, with people who are not lost in their adolescence.

suzanne4, RN · Aug 14, 2005

Abuse doesn't belong anywhere, and I am sorry that your administrators as well as the surgeon in charge of the OR doesn't stand up for you. I would never put up with it at all, and have been lucky that where I have been, it was not accpeted and several docs were removed from the staff.

ShirleyM · Aug 16, 2005

Well, can't really say he was like that because the camera was there, however, you wonder how he is when the camera isn't.
One of these days it'll get me in trouble, but we have a surgeon who thinks it's hilarious to call me a Let's Play Nurse. Did this during a C-section, pt. fully awake.
I said in a low voice "I don't degrade you, do not degrade me". Haven't worked with him since (he went on the Grand Tour in Europe), but we'll see how it goes the next time i do.

Marie, I'm curious...why did you say 'one of these days it'll get me in trouble' ?

I'd hate to think you're implying that you risk facing consequences for being assertive. BTW, I would've written him up after the first time, it's one time too many.

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Aug 16, 2005

Marie, I'm curious...why did you say 'one of these days it'll get me in trouble' ?
I'd hate to think you're implying that you risk facing consequences for being assertive. BTW, I would've written him up after the first time, it's one time too many.

Being too asservite lol.

chartleypj · Aug 19, 2005

After only 6 years in the OR as a circulating nurse, I have burned out and retired. The surgeons have humiliated me and my collegues relentlessly. We just have to take it. Personally I felt powerless until someone in P.T. asked me to write up a certain orthopod.....gee....go figure....an orthopod! Between the both of us writing to administration, he was booted from our hospital.
Does it pay to write them up? I say yes, but we need to go further with it. I've written newspaper columnists about this problem, 20/20 and MSNBC Investigates. Any other ideas from you?

Good for you for trying to improve the situation!

Does your facillity have a policy on harrassment? Was this surgeon addressed according to hospital policy? Administrations have a responsibility to protect all employees as well as address issues of harrassment.

The thing is, you don't have to 'just take it' Sweeping the unprofessional behavior under the rug by 'booting the surgeon from the hospital' isn't the answer; that is like firing an impaired nurse without addressing the drug/alcohol problem.

These incidents are great opportunities to advance the professionalism of nursing for nurses; unfortunately, a challenge exists when administration sweeps things under the rug.

Is it no wonder that, after about 125 years, nurses are still considered 'subordinate handmaidens' to physicians?

~also burned out but not totally disillusioned with perioperative nursing,

Paula

surginurse · Aug 21, 2005

A big part of the problem is there are others who will just "put up with it". Many nurses feel they can't do anything about this problem, because they have no support from administration. I say, document each and every occurence, and keep a copy. When you have a mountain of paperwork, take it through the proper channels, going all the way to the hospital CEO. When nothing happens, get a lawyer and sue for harrassment, not just the surgeon, but; the facility that allows this behavior to continue. Maybe if we hit them where it hurts, they'll finally begin to address this problem.

I recently left an OR Charge Nurse position, where part of my job was to intervene with these kinds of problems. Within 3 months the behaviors of certain surgeons drastically reduced. I would personally address the offending behavior, with specific examples. Making sure I let them know that type of behavior would not only lead to further documentation to the Chief of Surgery, but; cause them to lose the experienced team they so rely on. I have received apologies from most, and even lunch provided once a month from one particular surgeon group. Overall, my team knew they didn't have to "put up with it". We also had a surgeon who was assigned as "OR Surgeon Liason", who we could go to if problems persisted. He worked, in tandem, with the Chief of Surgery to address unprofessional behaviors. The OR Team needs to be committed to not allowing themselves to be abused, and be willing to confront these situations when they arise.

huckfinn · Aug 22, 2005

Once I had this anesthesia doc who was pissed b/c the aids didn't hop to when he ordered them to fetch a prep table to put his non-surgery related laptop on. I asked him if he planned on returning it to it's assigned place when he was through for the day. He escallated and started loud whining and complaining, slamming stuff about and getting nasty about my questioning his omnipotence and personal intentions.......I covered my ears and started singing "I can't hear you. I can't hear you." and continued until his jaw fell to the floor and he was quiet. I then offered that if I behaved in the same manner in which he is accustomed to behaving and spoke to others as he does, I would be fired and in some environments arrested for threatening and unruly behavior. And I refrained from doing so at this time for those reasons. I then proceeded to tell him that I would appreciate the same attitude and treatment he expected to receive. I repeated and allowed him to answer my original question as to intention of returning the prep table to it's assigned room when he was finished. Not only did he return the table when he was done for the day, but had a case of Harry and David pears sent to my home, offered me his box to see The Phantom of the Opera when it toured in our area and has treated me with the highest respect from that event to present (several years).

Writing people up for their inappropriate behavior will get you more of the same as well as contempt from those who hear the stories ABOUT YOUR IMPOTENT ACTIONS. TELL THOSE JERKS WHAT BEHAVIORS YOU EXPECT AND ACCEPT NOTHING LESS! THEIR MOTHERS WOULDN'T STAND FOR THEIR RUDE BEHAVIORS AND YOU SHOULDN'T EITHER!

Nuff sed.