Woman refuses CS, charged with murder - page 6

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (03-11) 13:49 PST SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- A pregnant woman who allegedly ignored medical warnings to have a... Read More

  1. by   saphireRN
    I am shocked at some of the comments on this thread as well. You are right, what kind of nurses are we???? It has been made clear time and again that this woman suffers from mental illness and yet some of these comments are really horrible....making fun of her looks, etc. I'm beginning to wonder if any of these nurses responding in this manner have ever actually worked with a mentally ill person. From the sound of these comments, I doubt it...you certainly can not expect someone who is mentally ill to think and act in a rational manner!
    The whole situation is very sad....sad for her, sad for those babies, thank goodness the surviving twin is safe.



    Quote from ktwlpn
    You are mis-informed. I have not seen any statement attributed to her that she refused the section because she did not want a scar
    -in fact she has
    had previous sections....She stated (and this has been quoted in many sources) "I don't want to be cut like that from breast to pubic bone" because "it will ruin my life" She was first hospitalized at the age of TWELVE...she had a mentally handicapped mother and was raised in the foster care system.Wether or not she was legally insane at the time if the babies birth remains to be seen but it is obvious she was not rational.And she did test postive for cocaine and etoh...i can't believe some of the judgemental attitudes on this thread....What kind of nurses are we?
  2. by   ejm99
    Quote from fergus51
    I think we need to be careful of what we all read into the story. It wouldn't be the first time a prosecutor embellished.

    I still don't see how she can be charges with anything, but social services can still investigate and determine if she can keep the other child.
    This is EXACTLY what I thought...but not only about the prosecutor but also about the MEDIA in general.

    How often do you turn on the news and hear a story then flip channels and hear the same story but w/ different, embellished, or flat out DIFFERENT details.

    Unfortunately we live in a society that allows the media to put their own little spin on any story they report...accurate or not.


    That being said....I hadn't heard about this til now...don't know her...or of her... and agree that if an MD who refuses to do a CS or take a woman's concern even the "something isn't RIGHT!" complaint seriously and there is a bad outcome isn't punnished then I don't know how I can stand by and judge a woman who says she doesn't want a CS.... ?

    It's a gray one for me.... I can't imagine refusing knowing one of my babies would die...but then again...the fact that she REPEATEDLY seeked other opininions and got additional medical care shows me that she wasn't so blase' about it as it sounds in the article....had she not given a rats' butt she wouldn't have bothered to seek other care.

    Many people have a deep seated fear of surgery...she wouldn't be the first...and perhaps her fear isnt' about cosmetic damage ....it must be hard to have made that choice and live w/ the consequences regardless to the reasoning behind her choice.
  3. by   missmercy
    It's gppd tp hear people say that we don't know the whole story -- we cnan't make sound, informed decisions or judgements without having all the info. I know my heart just breaks to think of what things this gal may have endured in her life... not an excuse, but I am sure ther are tings in all of our experiences that have made us do loopy things once in a while and that they may seem totally unintellegent , immoral or stupid to others looking in... I have heard so many different theories on this case -- so many subtle differences in the fact.... I am glad that I have never been in her shoes!!
  4. by   EarthAngel
    It sounds to me like a doctor got mad because his God-sent medical opinion wasnt heeded and now hes trying to prove his point.
  5. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    Over CROUTONS????
  6. by   Squeeta2
    Definitly fits the bill for depraved indifference. BUT...throw in the Hx of mental illness & you have a very twisted and sorrowful case. Jail is not the place for her, psych hospital yes. Perhaps she was off her meds r/t the pregnancy..or on less effective ones for the same reason. Who knows?
    Were there indicators? Yes. We can't change the past though just use it as a lesson learned albeit an expensive one morally speaking. I hope that the healthcare PROFESSIONALS are taking an active stance on her tx, not a judgemental one.
    God Bless the little children of the world. Give those involved in her care the strength to do so.
  7. by   NicuGal
    I too am appalled at some of the comments...I also think that there is more to the story. I have seen some of the mentally ill moms and it is truly sad. Many people with certain kinds of delusions will refuse surgery for a multitude of reasons. Only they know what is going on in their heads. I would love to know if they got a psych consult...they could have put a 3 day hold on her if they felt she was endangering herself.

    Newgrad2004....unfortunatley, that is what many mentally ill people do...and then the kids are brought to us and they would have been much better off if they died. And if a mom tests positive for drugs they don't go to jail, that is for sure. They test positive, go to rehab and 90% of the time they get the kids upon discharge.
  8. by   MultipurposeRN
    So we have a mentally ill, drug abusing woman who has already had children taken away from her because of neglect and inability to care for them. To refuse forcible sterilization for this woman is a serious neglect of her, IMO. Motherhood is already being denied her by the Family Services and rightly so.Why put her, and more future children, through all this misery? Sounds like her personal freedoms are a moot point anyway. I'm sorry, but I think she lost all reasonable rights to parenthood long ago. Of course it won't stop diseases..but will stop future children born to an unfit, mentally ill mother and further trauma from her continually losing them to death or forced removal. Enough is enough. A less permanent form of birth control probably wouldn't work for her, since she's not competent to keep track of pills or shots, I'm sure.
    Society cannot continue to handle the broken lives and bodies of those who are unfit or unable to care for themselves, yet bring children into the world to be taken care of at state expense. Working people simply don't have the luxury of spending a major portion of their tax dollars on social programs designed to keep feeding into this problem with no good solution on how to prevent it from happening over and over again.
  9. by   CatskillsRN
    Hi Gals,

    Just catching the thread, there is no doubt that this woman has serious issues, but is there any way to know whether the fetus would have survived with a C/S? i dont know may be maybe not.
    The real issue there is, MD pressing charges against a woman obviously not able to understand choices anyway...
    The second issue is: when this woman is going on trial, if the judge finds her guilty,
    this is ensuring a new jurisprudence. MD will be able to inforce their decisions on pregnant patients such as VBACS, etc.... scary if you ask me...
    just my 2 cents
  10. by   SmilingBluEyes
    yes Ginny, it is a VERY slippery slope on which we are perched. The implications are ENORMOUS.
  11. by   gypsyatheart
    "Forcible sterilization".....I don't think so! As much as I agree that these children are sufferring the consequences of these kinds of mothers, I adamantly refuse the idea of "forcibly" sterilizing anyone! Can you imagine the implications of that....so all mentally challenged women, drug abusing women get sterilized. Then what...deaf women? Blind women? Women whom we just don't want reproducing? Where would it stop? And do we really want to give the government this kind of control over women??? I don't think so.
    I agree, this is a huge issue and we've all seen and cared for these patients that we say "they shouldn't be allowed to reproduce", but to forcibly sterilize someone....
    No, what society needs is to pay more attention to it's own citizens and provide education and programs to deal with these issues.
    Society has a lot of burdens, that is for sure, but if we can't even take care of our own... what's next???



    Quote from MultipurposeRN
    So we have a mentally ill, drug abusing woman who has already had children taken away from her because of neglect and inability to care for them. To refuse forcible sterilization for this woman is a serious neglect of her, IMO. Motherhood is already being denied her by the Family Services and rightly so.Why put her, and more future children, through all this misery? Sounds like her personal freedoms are a moot point anyway. I'm sorry, but I think she lost all reasonable rights to parenthood long ago. Of course it won't stop diseases..but will stop future children born to an unfit, mentally ill mother and further trauma from her continually losing them to death or forced removal. Enough is enough. A less permanent form of birth control probably wouldn't work for her, since she's not competent to keep track of pills or shots, I'm sure.
    Society cannot continue to handle the broken lives and bodies of those who are unfit or unable to care for themselves, yet bring children into the world to be taken care of at state expense. Working people simply don't have the luxury of spending a major portion of their tax dollars on social programs designed to keep feeding into this problem with no good solution on how to prevent it from happening over and over again.
  12. by   Jolie
    Quote from CatskillsRN
    Hi Gals,

    Just catching the thread, there is no doubt that this woman has serious issues, but is there any way to know whether the fetus would have survived with a C/S? i dont know may be maybe not.
    The real issue there is, MD pressing charges against a woman obviously not able to understand choices anyway...
    The second issue is: when this woman is going on trial, if the judge finds her guilty,
    this is ensuring a new jurisprudence. MD will be able to inforce their decisions on pregnant patients such as VBACS, etc.... scary if you ask me...
    just my 2 cents

    Ginny,

    I agree that murder charges are not appropriate, but please understand that it is not the MD who is pressing them! It is the District Attorney.
  13. by   EarthAngel
    I didnt see anywhere in the article that the woman who lost one twin and was going to be charged with murder was metally ill or a drug abuser..

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