The Circumcision Discussion - page 42

I know this can be a HUGE debate, and I'm not looking to start any arguments. I was just wondering as you are OB nurses. I'm expecting a boy in July and not sure if we should circ. or not. My... Read More

  1. by   crissrn27
    Quote from Arwen_U
    I am far from a tree-hugger, but circ is not necessary. My son is intact and so far at 2 1/2 yo has had zero problem. Neither has his 34-yo intact father. I have a lot of problems with routine circ, and here they are (in no particular order).

    1) People who would not dream of sending their little girls to have even the smallest cut made in their labia under local anesthesia in sterile conditions, rightly calling it child abuse, those same folks will routinely send their little boys off to have their genitalia cut. What is the difference? A baby is a baby, and all babies feel pain.

    2) The locker room argument is, I think, quickly fading. There is plenty of intact company for intact boys. And really, what message am I sending my son having him circumcised just to fit in? I wouldn't tattoo him just because everybody else does, and I won't have him circed for the same reason.

    3) The 'looking like Daddy' thing was not an issue for us, but I wonder if it's not daddies who feel funny looking different than their sons rather than sons feeling funny looking different than Daddy. The hangups tend to be ours, not our children's. Like someone else said, "Daddy had a surgery that you don't need" should be enough.

    4) Hygiene -- ok, either way you have to wash it, right? Is it really so difficult to retract a foreskin, wash & rinse under it, and put it back? My preschooler can do it (and does).

    5) The actual number of people needing to be circed as adults is pretty darn low. Most of those problems are related to improper care such as infections & adhesions. You get the occasional phimosis/paraphimosis but that's not enough to make me buy into circing.

    Medicaid doesn't pay for circ in our state anymore, I don't know about other states. But it amazes me how many people will still shell out some big bucks for a small piece of foreskin that does actually serve a purpose!
    Right on, man! ok, lol, had to do it! Circs are not needed routinely. period. None of the docs I have seen do any kind of pain control, besides sweetez........nothing...at...all. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't have surgery with no pain control before, during, or after. And, as Arwen said, we wouldn't send our girls off to have part of their labia removed but we do this to boys all the time. You would be amazed how many Medicaid moms come in asking for extra formula, diapers, etc, because they can't afford it, but they can come up with that 200$ for the circ. WTH?? I don't get it. I have 2 sons, born before I knew any better, and my husband demanded we circ them. #1 got infected before leaving the hospital, ended up with urology visits, etc to correct. #2 has such short foreskin that surgery might be in his future, if he can't, umm, correct it himself (stretching). I would never, never circ another boy, if I have another. I don't care what my hubby says, I know better now.

    Another thing our docs don't do is educate. I really feel like if they would say, "well, I can do it for you, but it really isn't necessary" lots of parents would say. "Oh, it isn't, never mind then". They are making 200$ that goes straight into their pockets, they don't want circs to stop, at least at my hospital.
  2. by   crissrn27
    Quote from htrn
    As a side note - picture putting emla on a small moving target and then getting a tegaderm over it - that's one for americas funniest home videos
    Please, please, stop trying to use that stupid tegaderm for emla on the penis. It is impossible! Do this, and the baby will have better pain control. Put the emla in a baby bottle nipple, (with the ring removed, of course) and slip the nipple over the penis. Apply the diaper snuggly over the nipple, so that it stays in place. This works great! Cream stays where it is supposed to, penis gets (hopefully) numb, and no fighting with tegaderm!
  3. by   ElvishDNP
    [quote=crissrn27;2250440] You would be amazed how many Medicaid moms come in asking for extra formula, diapers, etc, because they can't afford it, but they can come up with that 200$ for the circ. WTH?? quote]

    Only $200? Man, where I am it's $673. I think it's so high due to the people who want it even though Medicaid won't pay for it but have absolutely no plans to pay it back, either. Some hospitals ask you to pay up front, or at least half before you do it.

    I think docs doing education is a big part of it too. Our docs don't educate either, and why would they? They make an insane amount of money for 5-10min of work.

    I will try to post the link where I originally found this, but I've read that it is illegal to circumcise boys in Finland for nonmedical, nonreligious reasons. I don't think all the guys in Finland have rotting penises...
  4. by   rnin02
    My husband is not circumcised and has never had a problem...no infections, hygiene issues are non exisistent. He was never talked about in the locker room or anything like that. Personally, we will never circ any boys we may have. But it is a personal decision...any man who had it done as a baby can't remember the procedure or what life was like before the circ, so how can they give an informed opinion on whether they would have wanted it done or not? Opinion is not quite the right word...the point I'm trying to make is that my husband is happy being "uncut" and others are happy being "cut"...they don't know how they would have felt if the circ was or was not done...so its difficult to ask them how they would feel. Sorry, its 3am, I hope that made sense to someone!
    Last edit by rnin02 on Jun 15, '07 : Reason: typo
  5. by   justme1972
    Quote from motorcycle mama
    When I was in nursing school when I did my OB rotation I remember them doing a circumcision. They brought the poor little baby in the nursery and I remember them taking out this board and strapping the little guy to it. I couldn't watch but I remember the screaming.
    This happens to be the hospital where I will deliver. I think my husband wants the baby to be circumcised but he is concerned about the pain as well.
    Do they generally use anesthetic? Do most people opt out of circumcision anymore, at least at the hospital?
    I am a firm circumcision believer (I won't get into the reasons here, b/c I don't want to start a circumcision debate). My son is circumcised.

    Our decision had nothing to do with him "looking like Dad". I don't think it makes any difference if a son does or not...that's like saying a son will develop a complex if he grows up without a father...if he has a strong mother he'll be just fine.

    However, there is no way I would have allowed my son to be strapped to a board and be "cut" without any type of pre- and post-circ pain relief. No way, no how.

    They actually performed this procedure on my son in the room with me at the hospital. I wanted to be able to breast feed him right after, so they did it right before he was due to feed. The original doc did circs "cold turkey" and I told the staff to find me another doctor. One came in, put some cream on his penis and came back 10 minutes later and did the procedure. My son cried more for his Hep shot than he did the circ. He was upset, but not screaming bloody murder. I nursed him immediately and he went right to sleep.

    They kept another cream on the site (can't remember what it was), for several days until it healed.

    That was our experience, and I think it turned out the best it could have.

    The only problem was one nurse that came in because the next day, my son wasn't eating well. This nurse said, "Well, if you had just had major surgery you probably wouldn't eat either." in a very sarcastic tone. She was obviously anti-circ.

    I made sure I didn't see her again.
  6. by   ElvishDNP
    Quote from Hopefull2009


    The only problem was one nurse that came in because the next day, my son wasn't eating well. This nurse said, "Well, if you had just had major surgery you probably wouldn't eat either." in a very sarcastic tone. She was obviously anti-circ.
    I am sorry she said that to you in that way. But I have seen it over and over in my short years as a nurse. Some babies who are BFing wonderfully, then get circed fall to pieces shortly thereafter and it takes a lot of time & work to get them back to where they were before. It has been known to happen. I'm not attacking you, I'm just saying that it's a fairly common thing, common enough that I warn moms that it might happen before they send baby for his circ.
  7. by   analee23
    I know this is random and may be a bit fftopic: But, just thought I'd share.

    The other day we had two kiddos come into my ER (about 2 hrs. apart) with foreskin entrapment in the mesh lining of their swimming suits! It was a bit odd, and scared the little boys, but I must say, both did very well with it. Never thought that could happen, but there it be! Both kiddos said it didn't hurt unless someone touched the entraped part of their foreskin.

    Just a lil bit odd... not saying they should be circ'd, just saying a lil weird that that could happen.
  8. by   ElvishDNP
    That is strange, analee. One of those weirdo things that you might never see for 25 years, then see 2 back to back.
  9. by   sunnydaydream
    I'm doing my OB rotation for my ASN program and have watched 3 circs. One was done with the board and Lidocaine block and they waited for the Lidocaine to work and the baby fussed, but didn't seem as distressed as the next baby I watched get circ. This doctor used the block, but didn't wait for it to take effect. The poor baby screamed bloody murder through the whole procedure. Finally, the third doc had standing orders of tylenol and emla cream before the procedure. Used the block and also used a pacifier that was dipped in sugar. This baby did not flinch or cry once. I truly believe that if a baby is to get circ'ed they deserve the last treatment. If I was a mother to a baby boy, although it would be painful to watch I would be sure that steps were taken so they didn't have the treatment that the second baby I had seen got.
  10. by   justme1972
    Quote from Arwen_U
    I am sorry she said that to you in that way. But I have seen it over and over in my short years as a nurse. Some babies who are BFing wonderfully, then get circed fall to pieces shortly thereafter and it takes a lot of time & work to get them back to where they were before. It has been known to happen. I'm not attacking you, I'm just saying that it's a fairly common thing, common enough that I warn moms that it might happen before they send baby for his circ.
    Arwen, I actually agree with you completely.

    If the nurse that came in said, "Well, circ'd babies usually do that because of the type of procedure it was." I am a very realistic person, I could have taken any advice she had to give...but it was the tone that she took that I had an issue with. I understand completely that it is a very individual decision and some nurses are either passionately for or against circumcision.

    There isn't anything wrong with giving mothers the pros and cons, b/c we need to hear the cons regardless of how much we don't want to hear them, to me that is good healthcare.
  11. by   RGN1
    I'm from the UK and it is not done here at all in hospital at birth, only later if medically indicated eg phymosis. Of course there are those that get it done for religious reasons but they organise that themsleves. I don't think any child should be subjected to an unnecessary procedure, with all it's infection & other risks, for no reason & to my mind that's what a circ at birth is!

    There are some real horror stories about things going wrong & for what?? So they can look like dad??? I have friend in the US who has 4 boys & after doing her research she absolutely refused point blank to let the docs near any of them & I admire her for that. A circ should be done only if medically, or arguable religiously, necessary. I'm glad there was no-one putting pressure on me when my boys were born to have them go through that!

    Another friend of mine in Canada was actually pro circ before she had her boy but when she looked into it after her son was born she also chose wisely & her boy is as nature intended him to be. Oh & for those who think a circ is cleaner - rubbish, as long as the child is taught to clean himself properly then there is no problem.
  12. by   Rock
    [font="arial black"]the prodedure is barbaric. there is no medical reason for circumcisions.
    in the case of phimosis (rare), a dorsal slit can be performed instead of circumcison.
    the following web site has pros/cons:
    www.cirp.org/
  13. by   ElvishDNP
    Quote from rock
    in the case of phimosis (rare), a dorsal slit can be performed instead of circumcison.
    a friend of mine who is a family practice doc in finland says that's what they do instead of circ if phimosis is present. it's called a preputiotomy.

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