mother dies after refusing blood transfusion

Labor Nurse · Nov 23, 2007

The best thing is to go to their website and read.
http://www.watchtower.org/e/200608/article_03.htm
Genesis 9:4 "But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it."
There are other passages you can see on the website.
I personally think they misinterpret this - eating is not the same as blood transfusions.
But, as I said, this is America and we have freedom of religion.
Is eating blood different from taking it into our veins? If your MD told you to abstain from alcohol, would it then be OK to take it in through your veins. You would still be damaging your liver would you not? Far better to damage your liver than your conscience. And if it bothers your conscience to "allow" the patient to die, just imagine how some might feel if it were forced upon them. One Jehovah's Witness who had blood forced (court order) upon her postpartum stated that she felt "raped". She has to live with this for the rest of her life. As one of Jehovah's Witnesses who was told I would die after a post delivery hemorrhage if I did not receive blood, I am very grateful to the MD who respected my beliefs even though I'm know for a fact that he was extremely nervous and did not agree with me.

allnurses Guide · Nov 23, 2007

The best thing is to go to their website and read.
http://www.watchtower.org/e/200608/article_03.htm
Genesis 9:4 "But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it."
There are other passages you can see on the website.
I personally think they misinterpret this - eating is not the same as blood transfusions.
But, as I said, this is America and we have freedom of religion.
Is eating blood different from taking it into our veins? If your MD told you to abstain from alcohol, would it then be OK to take it in through your veins. You would still be damaging your liver would you not? Far better to damage your liver than your conscience. And if it bothers your conscience to "allow" the patient to die, just imagine how some might feel if it were forced upon them. One Jehovah's Witness who had blood forced (court order) upon her postpartum stated that she felt "raped". She has to live with this for the rest of her life. As one of Jehovah's Witnesses who was told I would die after a post delivery hemorrhage if I did not receive blood, I am very grateful to the MD who respected my beliefs even though I'm know for a fact that he was extremely nervous and did not agree with me.
I completely agree that everyone has the right to make their own choice - which I have said with each of my posts.
I also directed people to the official website to get answers.
I have never advocated forcing my belief that this verse is misinterpreted on anyone and believe this mom in this case had every right to refuse blood.
You'd have to be grateful to me too - along with the doc - because I would never ever force blood on you.
I'm hoping you will differentiate me from others who think you should have blood forced on you.
steph

allnurses Guide · Nov 23, 2007

Is eating blood different from taking it into our veins? If your MD told you to abstain from alcohol, would it then be OK to take it in through your veins. You would still be damaging your liver would you not? Far better to damage your liver than your conscience. And if it bothers your conscience to "allow" the patient to die, just imagine how some might feel if it were forced upon them. One Jehovah's Witness who had blood forced (court order) upon her postpartum stated that she felt "raped". She has to live with this for the rest of her life. As one of Jehovah's Witnesses who was told I would die after a post delivery hemorrhage if I did not receive blood, I am very grateful to the MD who respected my beliefs even though I'm know for a fact that he was extremely nervous and did not agree with me.

With respect to your belief system, I do think this is like comparing apples to oranges.

And it wouldn't bother my conscience to allow a patient free will in their choices. But I can't help feel badly for the kids left behind. Not the same thing.

I am an avid believer in freedom to practice religion. With no one in the government telling me I can't.

I'm on your side.

steph

sanctuary, BSN, MSN, RN · Nov 24, 2007

This statement is totally untrue. There is a vast and rational middle ground in our society, based on philosophical commonalities that we all share. The religious are NOT usually irrational, and neither are nonbelievers. What IS true is that there are irrational people of every idealogical subset.

Wow, well said, and as part of that vast middle-ground-philosophically-accepting-of-the-need-for-ethics-without-wanting-to limit-that-to-any-religious-idiology, Thanks again.

allnurses Guide · Nov 24, 2007

Wow, well said, and as part of that vast middle-ground-philosophically-accepting-of-the-need-for-ethics-without-wanting-to limit-that-to-any-religious-idiology, Thanks again.

Woot! (As my friend Tweety says). :w00t:

steph

doe9181 · Nov 25, 2007

I admire JW for having such a strong faith base and sticking to their beliefs. I would hope I would be like that if it came down to it. I do pity the children that lost their mother, but unfortunately it wa the mother's choice.

Someone mentioned before if JW are mostly vegetarian because the rule says they can not eat animal blood. That is a very good point because their is blood in red meat so I wonder if they abstain. Does anyone know the answer to this question? I'm curious.

suanna · Nov 25, 2007

A lot of JWs refuse blood because they do not understand the WTS's convoluted watering-down of their blood transfusion ideology.
The WTS currently leaves treatments involving blood fractions up to the individual JW's conscience. Infusions of the four major components (plasma, RBCs, WBCs, platelets) are not allowed, however fractions of those components are permitted.
This has changed from the original "NO BLOOD" position from the 50's and 60's.
There have been numerous changes in this policy over the years, and many JWs are ignorant of these changes, or are so overwhelmed by the medical terminology that their "default position" is NO BLOOD, just to be on the safe side. They are more concerned about offending their god, than they are about leaving a child without a mother.
Thanks for this post but we recently have had several JWs who have sought interpretation from the leadership of thier local Kingdom Hall and been told that no blood product- even albumin is acceptable. I wonder how much latitude is given to each Kingdom Hall to set thier own standards for thier members?

HvnSntRN · Nov 25, 2007

Thanks for this post but we recently have had several JWs who have sought interpretation from the leadership of thier local Kingdom Hall and been told that no blood product- even albumin is acceptable. I wonder how much latitude is given to each Kingdom Hall to set thier own standards for thier members?

Each JW is supposed to receive an Advance Medical Directive card from their respective congregation elders, and should review the information therein annually. The version of the card that I most recently saw had several options for the individual JW to choose from.

Dr. Osamu Muramoto, in the Western Journal of Medicine, provides a summary of the acceptable vs unacceptable medical uses of blood by Jehovah's Witnesses. http://www.ajwrb.org/wjm/wjm.htm

Your comments regarding local leadership may very well be true - again this is not the official position of the WatchTower Society. The local body of elders may have more strict opinions on the matter, but the decision is supposed to be the individual's, not imposed upon them by the leadership or the members of the Hospital Liaison Committees (specially selected elders who are assigned by the WatchTower Society and have been trained to consult with and advocate for JWs in receiving appropriate medical treatment that honours the individual's decisions regarding bloodless treatment or the use of blood fractions), the intimidating and possibly coercive nature of their presence notwithstanding, in the event that a JW does actually wish to receive blood or blood products - because their witnessing such an event would automatically result in proceedings against the patient and likely end with them being "disfellowshipped" and the loss of their entire JW social network (family members included).

In the event of a negative outcome, the last thing the WatchTower Society wants is for a bereaved family member to have evidence that their deceased loved one was coerced and did not make the decision to refuse blood or blood products of their own free will. It is in the corporation's best interests, from a purely legal perspective, that a JW who refuses blood products does so voluntarily, without being "told" what to do by their local elders.

Whenever you see a news report of a JW's death due to refusing blood, it's almost certain that an "official" statement from the congregation elders or headquarters will be included, to the effect that it was the patient's "choice", and not imposed upon them in any way.

SharonH, RN · Nov 25, 2007

They are more concerned about offending their god, than they are about leaving a child without a mother.

This statement is patently false and a completely unfair characterization of what is an agonizing decision for most people. I have never met a JW either in person or in the hospital who took their healthcare decisions cavalierly and who did not consider the consequences of refusing blood or blood products. Why exactly are you so disrespectful?

Thanks for this post but we recently have had several JWs who have sought interpretation from the leadership of thier local Kingdom Hall and been told that no blood product- even albumin is acceptable. I wonder how much latitude is given to each Kingdom Hall to set thier own standards for thier members?

The answer to that is none. Each Kingdom Hall is under the leadership of the WTS. I find it hard to believe that some members sought interpretation from the local congregation and were told no blood products were acceptable when the WTS' position is that albumin is NOT prohibited and its use was an individual decision. Are you sure you understood what happened when they sought counseling with their local elders? Perhaps they merely wanted a discussion with the elders before making their personal decision.

delvenia · Nov 25, 2007

I am a devote Jehovah's Witness and the decision is because 1) we obey God as ruler, not men. In the Bible it says that you must not partake of blood, as it contains the soul. The blood does not belong to you or me, it belongs to God. 2) If you truly have strong faith and believe in Jesus' words, then you would know that this patient will be resurrected and will see their family again, just as Lazurus was. That is our choice to make and our burden to bare. i refused blood as well when I had surgery in 05 and I was fine (wasn't a major surgery), but when it comes to your faith, you have to ask yourself " is my life here right now worth sacrificing the life that God promised for me later." I hope this helps to give some of you have a better understanding of our view on the matter....

SharonH, RN · Nov 25, 2007

I hope this helps to give some of you our view on the matter....

Hi delvenia, I can understand your hope that some out there try to understand your view on this matter but if you read the thread, you will see that there are many who have come to this subject with their own personal axe to grind and as such their statements are filled with inaccuracies and false interpretations based on their own prejudices with no regard or respect for their colleagues on this forum who may be JW, so you can imagine the type of care they must give to their patients who are JW.

delvenia · Nov 25, 2007

Hi delvenia, I can understand your hope that some out there try to understand your view on this matter but if you read the thread, you will see that there are many who have come to this subject with their own personal axe to grind and as such their statements are filled with inaccuracies and false interpretations based on their own prejudices with no regard or respect for their colleagues on this forum who may be JW, so you can imagine the type of care they must give to their patients who are JW.

I agree with you so much. Thank you for the kind words. I spoke to the person who brought me into the truth yesterday. I call her my spiritual mother. She is also a RN. She has been a nurse for 43 years. She warned about stuff like this, but also gave me comfort in knowing that there would be people like you who would respect our views. I am a nursing student, set to graduate in April of 2009 with my ASN. I do, however, like to hear what people think and why. I think it gives me a little more opportunity to clarify misconceptions about my faith...