Clinical hours short of NMC suggestion? - page 4
by helricha 35,413 Views | 123 Comments
First of all, I really hope Silverdragon reads this and gives me insight. I have sent out my application as well as all of my paperwork to the NMC for my nursing license, except my training form. I was trained in the US at... Read More
- 0Feb 16, '11 by Silverdragon102 AdminQuote from jls2011new to this forum and hope someone will have an insight.
i am an american trained nurse (with the dreaded accelerated second degree bsn) who is residing in the uk with a spousal visa. i started the nmc application process, but called today to question the clinical hours requirement. they told me straight -- that with a 12 month bsn, they will be unable to approve my application. as i'm not running off to the u.s. so quickly and i'd like to work as a nurse in the u.k., they referred me to the ucas site, specifically the section on apel credits. the nmc suggested contacting university programs here to see what i could do to amalgamate my us bsn.
1) has anyone done this? suggestions?
2) not to sound too complainy, but i'm unsure of one detail. the dean of my university in the u.s. explained that the clinical and theory hours are exactly the same in the accelerated program as they are in the traditional bsn. so, does that mean that if i had a traditional american bsn, i would still have difficulty joining the uk register?
any insight would be appreciated. i was working under the assumption when i agreed to move here with my husband that having a bsn would exempt me from this mini-nightmare. i had no idea they differentiated between a traditional bsn and an accelerated bsn.
the question is do your clinical and theory hours match the uk hours. that is what usually is required although each case is based individually i believe some have gotten though with slightly less hours but uk clinical and theory hours are a lot as the training is full time for 3 years with a lot of clinical emphasis
for all three year nursing courses, at least half (or 2300 hours) must be in clinical or
practical training, and at least one third (or 1533 hours) must be theoretical training.
- 1Feb 16, '11 by babyRN.Actually, I'm glad this thread popped up again because I received an e-mail from a UK agency--the lady told me that she has never heard of an American RN with a straight 4-year bachelor's degree be denied. She said that the NMC knows that American nurses don't have nearly the amount of hours that UK nurses have in training. This is also consistent with other extensive research that I have completed through the wonders of google. When I get another chance I'll post a few links for other folks who might be reading this thread wondering if they can register.
The kicker, obviously, is immigration. I feel very fortunate that my husband is a British citizen, otherwise it would be nearly impossible in this economy, I imagine. Although I wanted to go in the first place to be near his parents so they can meet their grandkids.
The accelerated BSN is more sticky, unfortunately for you...I don't have an answer for that one.
- 0Feb 17, '11 by jls2011Thanks for your responses!
To Silverdragon : No, my clinical hours will not total 2300. But neither do traditional American BSNs as BabyRN has correctly pointed out. I know of no American universities where 62 weeks (37.5 hours/week) is dedicated to clinical or "on the job training". When the move to the U.K was a twinkle in my eye, I confirmed with a friend/faculty member that the requirements for the accelerated BSN was identical to the traditional students, simply condensed into a 12 month full time, M-F 8 - 5 p.m schedule. Therefore, if traditional American BSN students are awarded NMC registration "on a case by case" basis, I don't know why accelerated students are discriminated against.
Anyway, I did learn, for what it's worth, that even if I wanted to augment my BSN by parlaying into a British nursing program, I would have to wait for three years to do so, regardless of the fact that I'm on a spousal visa (married to U.K. citizen).
I have a meeting with our local MP on Monday to discuss this issue. I don't have much hope in making a dent into a system that is tremendously biased in favor of the EU, but it will be interesting nonetheless.
Thanks to both for responding, again!
- 0I also am interested in working in the UK. I currently have an ADN and am working on my BSN. Because I have an ADN, the clinical hours were included in the total credit hours in the nursing courses. It does not seem that, even when I complete my BSN, that I will have nearly enough clinical hours to complete what the NMC requires. The only two courses that I have left that require clinical hours will total 80 hours.
If I had to guess at the total clinical hours I currently have while earning my ADN, I would say 450. With the last two clinical courses that require 40 hours each, that brings me to approx. 540.
I am not really understanding why the UK has such excessive requirements? I knew someone who is American, who was living in Scotland at the time that she graduated from nursing school. So, she was trained there, and now is back in the States. The way that she spoke about it was that you could indeed work there with an ADN ??
Do they calculate this with just nursing courses or are pre reqs also calculated (for the theory portion)? I also was working on a med tech degree at one time, I have enough college credits for two bachelor degrees. Doesnt that count for something? This is horribly discouraging... I may give up my dream of ever working over there or even working for one of the travel nurse companies that employ US trained nurses in the UK.
I actually did read all the posts in this thread..thankfully. Im still confused tho lol It is something that I really want, as I see it is with others as well. I don't think that I understand calculating the hours, to be honest. The hours that I posted were actual hours spent int eh clinical setting just added up, but isnt there an actual formula that is used? What about time spent in skills laboratory and clinical preparation? Does that count? I know some schools do not require chart studies the nite before clinical, but mine did. I would often spend two hours going through my patient's record, then coming home after an hour drive and finishing up preparation for the next day, which would often take me up to three hours (I went to a very strict school, and they would send you home if you didnt know the answer to a simple question).
I also came from a school where 75 was a failing grade. I find that is everywhere but there are also more schools that consider a lower grade as passing. It was just an over all tough school and if you made it through then it was quite an accomplishment (as it is anywhere really!). Just nightmare-ish and I often equate it to military boot camp lol! thank you for sharing your insight with me, I truly appreciate it!
- 0Feb 18, '11 by Silverdragon102 AdminGenerally it is required that your training matches UK training which for most people is just over 3 years full time in university. For several years the UK training has changed and for most it is specialised with options to only do Adult nursing, mental Health nursing or Paeds nursing. Midwifery is totally different and a course on it's own. For the ones doing Adult, mental Health or Paeds the first 18 months is a foundation course and the last 18 months becomes more specialised but even then many students do not gain experience in all areas enabling them to be general trained making it easier to register as a RN in both Canada as well as the US. Presently UK training is either diploma or degree level but from 2013 all nurse training will be at BSN level
Thank you for explaining that to me! Oh my, I am wracking my brain trying to figure this out... and i honestly did not know this forum existed as I just joined today. I also do not know quite how to use this site either so it will take me som e time to get used to it
Interestingly, 2013 is the year that many changes will take place here in the US as well. I am working toward my BSN, and am very close to finishing (will be finished in 2012). After which I would love to continue on and get my masters and be a nurse practitioner. In 2013, a PhD will be required for NPs. Also, BSN will be required in all states, as of timing I don't know, but ADNs will no longer be eligible to work in the US. Many facilities are requiring BSN now as well. I lived an hour from Boston last year and every hospital I looked at required the BSN no matter how many years of experience you have. While discouraging, it makes sense in that evidence shows better patient outcomes with bachelor prepared nurses. The movement has begun! Im' glad I'm doing it now to be honest
- 0Feb 19, '11 by babyRN.A PhD will NOT be required of NPs, although a DNP may be. In actuality, it's a guideline posted by the AACN, not a requirement (and it's 2015, NOT 2013). There are many universities who are not complying with this recommendation. There is also no truth in the ADNs not being eligible. There are some states that have lobbied that one makes it so you have to get it within a certain number of years, but by no means is this every state.
Try not to post information unless you're sure of the information because you inadvertently mislead others and discourage those that may seek an advanced path but do not want all extra work you've described.
edit: it's actually the AACN (American Association of Colleges of Nursing), not the ANA like I originally described. Link in my next post.Last edit by babyRN. on Feb 19, '11