Become a nurse in just 12 months!!! - page 5

How do you feel about the nursing shortage being relieved by "fast track" nursing programs? A program that only takes 12 months. Read this article: ---------------------- College grads... Read More

  1. by   Gennaver
    Quote from hope3456

    I'm not very opinionated on this topic of accelerated nursing programs, but it does seem to raise the question (at least in my mind) of what exactly a bachelors degree is worth.

    ... Any advice?
    Hi,
    Another good question.

    What I have heard advocated and promoted around universities and colleges and corporations is that the Bachellors degree is becoming the new high school diploma, (the entry level into the professional work world-this means all and any professional fields).

    Yep, the BA/BS is to the generation x-ers and the generation called the millenials what the h.s. degree was to the boomers generation.
    Stats are proving it true as well from what I heard in my research and education classes, sorry, do not have the research but, you can find it so easily I am sure.

    Gen
  2. by   MiaNJ
    My best friend quit her Advertising job at at 27, went back to school, got her 2nd degree in nursing. Did not do an accelerated program. Had no prior sciences. Took 2 1/2 yrs, and it was still extremely rough. So I can't imagine doing it in any less time.

    And yes, the ads are deceiving. It cannot be one year. This has to assume you have your pre-reqs first (including your sciences, which you likely won't have if your degree is not a BS).[/QUOTE]

    Well I am entering an Accel. program in January..But I have already taken the science prereqs, on my own..after I completed my BA in Psych.
    I took A&P I & II, Chemistry. I, Organ. Chemistry, Biochemistry, Microbiology, Bioethics.
    I took all these within 2 yrs. time...taking 1 or 2 classes per semester since I worked full time.

    So in actuality, my BSN program (when I complete it) would not have taken 1 yr...but about 3 yrs...since I already put in 2 yrs of learning the prereqs.
    It could have taken less time if I took the prereqs full time..but this was the only way I could do it..and I feel I did pretty well in all the sciences.

    I didn't need all those Chemistry courses for my particular program...but I was applied to other programs which required different preqeqs.

    I have also taken Developmental Psych 1 & II, Statistics, Mammalian Biology, Sociology, Politics of Healthcare, etc...as part of my BA program...and these are also part of the curriculum in the 'traditional' BSN program at the school I will be attending for the Accel. BSN.
    So in the end..I will have put in approx. the same amount of time as these students..but I already passes all the required courses.

    Also, 'Fast Track' is a misnomer..since we don't get any short cuts and don't 'skip' any courses. It's just that we don't get the summer off.. and have to do clinicals from 9 to 5 or longer on many days of the week.

    It's a more 'condensed' program..but we are doing the same amount of courswork and clinical hours as the traditional program..at least in the school where I will be attending.
    I realize all schools are different but I am going by what I have researched about my school and other programs in my area.
    I know some students take summer courses..but most don't take a 'full' schedule throughout the entire summer like the Accel.program.

    But if I count all time I have actually put into getting the BSN..it will actually be longer than just the 1 yr.
  3. by   danu3
    As I mentioned before, one really need to look at each individual accelerated programs in details, very hard to generalized. For example, the UCSF one I mentioned is a 3 years master program with basically one year to get your RN and 2 years for masters. Now UCSF nursing is one of the top nursing schools in the country, I sure wouldn't mind someone from that "quickie" degree to look at me.

    Also one needs to look at what are the admissions criteriea. A number of them are tough to get in. Beside a high GPA, you need all kinds of prereqs to be fullfilled already (so in reality, it is actually more than 1 year or 1 1/2 year). Standard thing, you need a number of life sciences to be taken within the last 5-7 years (depending on the program) and they don't care if you have a Ph.D. in biology. The prereqs are either the same as the traditional route or even harder. And the prereqs are not "accelerated.

    The second bach is actually a minor consideration, it is the life experience these students bring in. An example, many of these students probably seen death already and they have to deal with it sucessfully. Another example, one poster mentioned s/he does not want an engineer who went through a "quickie" accelerated nursing program to take care of him/her. Well, it depends... for me, if this engineer has 20 years in engineering and worked from small to large companies... has experience as a great team lead, as a great manager... gone to a top program like UCSF, I would not mind. The reason is that this "engineer" has people skills (I know, the stereotype is that engineering don't require people skills, you'll be surprised) and s/he can stand up for me. This engineer with his/her life exeripence is not going to be intimitated by management and higher authorities and s/he also knows how to deal with these people. As for the "philosophy" degree nurse, I wouldn't mind especially if I have questions that deals with life's meaning, someone with a "philosophy" background could potentially come in handy. Or if I or the family needs to make some hard ethical decisions, a nurse with a "philosophy" background can come in handy. These kind of attitude is probably an attitude that equate nursing only at the biological level. It forgets that nursing is one of the few unique professions that require skills at the psycho-social-spiritual levels. An ideal nurse would excel at the bio-pyscho-social-spiritual level, not just at the bio level. But none of us are perfect and we are good at different combination of levels.

    One also needs to look at the aceelerated program in terms of whether these students have their own "accelerated" classes or do they take their classes with other traditional nursing students. The ones I am familier with take it with other traditioanl nursing students and they take tons of summer classes also. Now the summer classes, since it is shorten just like any summer classes, we have look at what is taken in summer. One program I've seen, they have maternity, pedi, and psych clinical in summer. Now for a person who has no interests in maternity, that is no big loss, just something to get done with. For lots of nursing students, a shorten psych clinical in summer is welcome as lots of students do not like psych. Now if you love maternity, that would be a bummer.

    As seen in a number of posts already for people who are in such programs, many of them are "accelerated" only in the sense that you go through summer and winter breaks. The truely accelerated part are the classes in summer and winter, but that is no different than other summer or winter classes in other subjects. Now in my opinion, 1 year nursing school for an RN is a bit wild. 1 1/2 year is more reasonable.

    This discussion reflects a general problem in the nursing culture - my degree is better than your degree. For those of us who do have many years of experience in another field, I think it is safe to say that we know that your degree only gives you the fundamentals, the real training starts at work, that is where you really get trained. So for entry level nursing, in my opinion, it does not matter whether you have an ADN, BSN, accelerated BSN, diploma school, ... whatever... as long as you pass the NCLEX and you meet the clinical requirements of your state board. A significant factor that determine how good a nurse you are will be the kind of training you get at work.

    -Dan
  4. by   danu3
    Also, 'Fast Track' is a misnomer..since we don't get any short cuts and don't 'skip' any courses. It's just that we don't get the summer off.. and have to do clinicals from 9 to 5 or longer on many days of the week.

    It's a more 'condensed' program..but we are doing the same amount of courswork and clinical hours as the traditional program..at least in the school where I will be attending.
    Good point. It is a misnomer. People think these programs take some kind of short cuts. At least the ones I am familier, they do not.

    The article the OP posted for our comments is misleading.

    It is like one needs to get to a house a mile away. I would alternate between running and walking (say 1/4 mile running, 1/8 mile walking), that is like a traditioanl program. An "accelerated" program, you run all the way, no walking. Both persons gets to their destination. There are no shortcut for the person who runs all the way. The differences are that one get to the destination a bit faster than another; and maybe the one who has the walking can enjoy the scenery of the journey more. One is not somehow superior to another.
  5. by   danu3
    Quote from hope3456
    Question for the accelerated students (I am not judging - just curious):

    Do you feel it was worth it to get the first degree? Would you do it over again - getting a degree and then going to nsg school?
    I am not a nursing student yet but I just finished all lower division nursing prereqs (took me about 1 1/2 year or so depending how you count it). I am apply to an ADN, BSN, and accelerated BSN (1 1/2 yr) and I'll go to which ever one accept me first.

    As for the question, yes, I would get my degrees first if I have to do it again. The reason is that I look at my degrees as just another building block to my nursing degree. Also lots of skills I developed in my work experience are transferable to nursing.

    I'm not very opinionated on this topic of accelerated nursing programs, but it does seem to raise the question (at least in my mind) of what exactly a bachelors degree is worth. I mean, it seems to me our society, or maybe the education system, seems to make those out who don't have a bachelors degree to be "lesser" or they have lower socioeconomic status, ect.
    It is probably more lesser in prestige. It also depends a lot on the field. In some engineering field, it is possible to have the technician make more money than the engineer if they work lots of hours (they get overtime and the engineers do not). Also in a number of computer companies, it is possible for a senior engineer to make more money than his/her boss.

    As for nursing, a BSN basically opens up a lot more opportunites for you. Now if you are perfectly happy with what you are doing now and you can see that you can do it till you retire (and I know indirectly a few people with an ADN is perfectly happy at what they are doing), then staying at ADN is fine. However at a minimum, you get a lot more training now in public health nursing which most ADN program just do not have the time to do. That is just one example. Another example, since I am applying for a BSN also, I also have upper division GE requirements which I have to take regardless I have a second degree already. I managed to picked 5 very interesting classes that are related indirectly to nursing. They are: "Death Dying and Religion", "Magic, Science, Religion", "Nutrition and Physical Fitness", "Aging and society", "Health Science Writing". I would not have the opportunity to take these classes if I focus on my ADN application only. Another thing for me as an example, if I get into the traditional BSN nursing program, the university I am interested in also has a minor in gerontology. There is enough room in the nursing program (in summer, in winter, not every semester has full nursing load as this give students time to fullfill other requirement) that I can minor in gerontology. With the accelerated BSN, forget the minor, there is no way to do that.

    I mean, what is wrong with this picture? Right now, I know some people who just have technical training that are pretty well off, and then others with bachelors ( a couple CNA's who I work with) who can't find work in their field and are struggling w/student loans. It just seems ironic to me. Is it maybe due to the changing economy?
    Getting a degree does not mean you make money. Plenty of Ph.D. makes lousy money or just plain out of a job. If you want to make money, learn to start your own company and sell a service or product that people really need. Or be a automechanic or plummer. If you want to really make money, be the guy that goes to colleges that clean all the microscopes... serious... they charge an arm and a leg.


    Personally, I started college right out of h.s., got bored and dropped out to see what the "real world" was like. I started working as a CNA (by accident), got turned on to nsg, and then got into a ADN program. I just finished last year. I am doing well with it, but it is in the back of my mind still that I am a "college dropout." I may start on my BSN but am also interested in a science degree, like psych or biology to make me a more "well rounded" person - but then I am wondering if it is a waste. I have many of the core classes completed. Any advice?
    You got a ADN, right? Then you are not a college dropout. For nursing basically, you want to continue to get as much educatiion that you can gets your hands on. If you have the opportunity to get a BSN, go for it. If you have the opportunity to get a MSN, go for that too. If you have the opportunity to get a Ph.D. in nursing, go for it. This is not so much to make more money, it is more that it can potentially open up other interesting opportunities that are going to be meaningful to you.

    Personally, I would suggest you go for a BSN first. Once you get a BSN, you can branch to all kinds of areas. For example, one nurse I know has a Ph.D. in molecular biology; another I know became a priest and went back to the hospital that she worked for and became the chaplain. If you are interested in psych, go for a psychiatric NP (which means you need a BSN first before going to graduate school); one person I know is thinking about getting a graduate degree in Library Science after a BSN in order to go into the medical searcher field.
  6. by   nurse4theplanet
    Quote from suzanne4
    but if you look at it the other way, if you are already doing a bunch of pre-reqs to get into the program, then it really isn't just a 12 month program. With any of these programs it is going to come down to how much work that the student actually puts into it.

    A physician from another country has to do a two year program to meet the requirements and they have already had all of the science courses, and pre-reqs done.
    You are soooo right. It is the same for all nursing routes, I think. In my ADN...The *program* is two years but my pre-req's were two years as well and I have been able to get all my BSN pre-req's too. We put in alot more time than we (nurses) are getting credit for...:angryfire
  7. by   suzanne4
    Quote from Gennaver
    Hi there,

    I am not understanding your claims about other countries not recognizing a post baccalaureate BSN degree as being valid?

    I am in a two yeard Master's entry to nursing program, (full two years, with no summer's off), are you claiming that it also will not be recognized by other countries? Which ones, please? This is so vague it is hard to believe.

    Gen
    Sorry but it is true. They do not look at the degree but the hours that were spent in the program, actually the same thing that the US does with foreign nurses that wish to work in the US. Example, currently, none of the European countries accept the accelerated degree from the US to qualfiy for licensure.

    I am the Moderator for the International, the UK, as well as the NCLEX forums, and deal with this on a daily basis.
  8. by   Gennaver
    Quote from danu3

    This discussion reflects a general problem in the nursing culture - my degree is better than your degree. For those of us who do have many years of experience in another field, I think it is safe to say that we know that your degree only gives you the fundamentals, the real training starts at work, that is where you really get trained.

    ...A significant factor that determine how good a nurse you are will be the kind of training you get at work.

    -Dan
    Dan,
    Thank you for pointing out these two very important and valid concepts. I agree wholeheartedly and am glad to read them in this thread.

    Gen
  9. by   Gennaver
    Quote from suzanne4
    Sorry but it is true. They do not look at the degree but the hours that were spent in the program, actually the same thing that the US does with foreign nurses that wish to work in the US. Example, currently, none of the European countries accept the accelerated degree from the US to qualfiy for licensure.

    I am the Moderator for the International, the UK, as well as the NCLEX forums, and deal with this on a daily basis.
    Hello and thank you for responding,

    Do you have access to the list of universities or schools which do not have international accredidation? Also, do these universities also neglect to honor the NCLEX-RN licensure of students who have attended these universities?

    Does the AACN, (is this right?) recognize these universities and if so, why?

    Most importantly for myself, and several of my classmates who are interested in international and disaster relief nursing, is DePaul University from Chicago, IL on that list which is NOT recognized? Need to know because this is a private institution and we are paying $407. per credit hour for a 107 credit hour program. Also, we are not allowed to go below an 86% average or we are kicked out, no questions, nor are we allowed any more than a solo grade of C throughout, (as long as we are above 86%) or we are dismissed. Since this is a master's program our minimum grade of 86% is a B-. A- does not start until 92% and in order to earn an A the score must be at 95%. This is a big time, effort and cost investment. I would hate for my three classmates to get the shrift.

    Thanks,
    Gen
    p.s. still baffled
    Last edit by Gennaver on Dec 11, '05
  10. by   askater11
    Quote from danu3

    This discussion reflects a general problem in the nursing culture - my degree is better than your degree. For those of us who do have many years of experience in another field, I think it is safe to say that we know that your degree only gives you the fundamentals, the real training starts at work, that is where you really get trained. So for entry level nursing, in my opinion, it does not matter whether you have an ADN, BSN, accelerated BSN, diploma school, ... whatever... as long as you pass the NCLEX and you meet the clinical requirements of your state board. A significant factor that determine how good a nurse you are will be the kind of training you get at work.

    -Dan
    I think even though people pass NCLEX it's not a true sign how GOOD of a nurse they'll be. And I do not believe my degree is better then anyone elses. But I do believe I needed more hands on after graduating nursing school. Whether it be by the hospital or the nursing school. Dr's education after getting their degree is hands on--that's what I think we need more of. And I'm not talking about the "hands on" by getting hired and getting a 6 week orientation. I'm talking a good 1 year JUST working in a clinical setting itself. That's just my thought in hind site. Looking at the overall picture in the past 10 years since graduating.
  11. by   suzanne4
    Quote from Gennaver
    Hello and thank you for responding,

    Do you have access to the list of universities or schools which do not have international accredidation? Also, do these universities also neglect to honor the NCLEX-RN licensure of students who have attended these universities?

    Does the AACN, (is this right?) recognize these universities and if so, why?

    Most importantly for myself, and several of my classmates who are interested in international and disaster relief nursing, is DePaul University from Chicago, IL on that list which is NOT recognized? Need to know because this is a private institution and we are paying $407. per credit hour for a 107 credit hour program. Also, we are not allowed to go below an 86% average or we are kicked out, no questions, nor are we allowed any more than a solo grade of C throughout, (as long as we are above 86%) or we are dismissed. Since this is a master's program our minimum grade of 86% is a B-. A- does not start until 92% and in order to earn an A the score must be at 95%. This is a big time, effort and cost investment. I would hate for my three classmates to get the shrift.

    Thanks,
    Gen
    p.s. still baffled
    Accrreditation in the US doesn't mean that it is accepted out of the country. That certification is only for the US. If you do your homework, you will also find that most provinces in Canada also do not accept the accelerated degree from the US.

    Even for nurses that wish to work in the US from other countries, and they have a BSN, they still must submit a breakdown of their hours, not just their degree. US rulings currently are that they must have at least two years of training to be accepted for working in the US, and that they be considered a professional first level nurse in their country.

    Example, Ontario which includes Toronto is not accpeting the accelerated program form the US, unless they have changed in the last few weeks. They are requiring a two year degree in nursing for the LPN license there, as well as a four year degree, and full four year degree for the RN.

    NCLEX is not accepted out of the US for licensure, you must meet the requirements for the individual country, as well as their immigration policies to be able to work there. No US school has international accreditation as far as licensure, each country has their own list of what is required to get a license in their country, and each requires their own exam. The only way that the US license is accepted in other countires is if the US nurse works for the US military at one of their bases.
  12. by   suzanne4
    Countries, inlcuding the US, go by the number of hours in each of the required areas, not the name of the degree or even title of it. A breakdown of hours must be submitted, and that is what needs to be accepted.

    Same thing with Excelsior College if you look at it. It is expensive, and with that, not even all states in the US accept it for licensure.

    You need to do your homework for any program out there, and what you specificially want to do with it when you finsih, and make sure that you will be able to use the degree later on.

    Another example, those nurses that wish to do their graduate training out of the US, not all is accepted in the US, such as a nurse that has trained in another country as an anesthetist has to repeat the program here if they wish to work here, same thing for physicians, they have to complete another internship and residency to practice here, even if they were the top surgeon or whatever in their country.

    If your goal is to work out out of the US, where it requires you to have a license in another country, do your homework first.
  13. by   shodobe
    Sorry, I guess I am too much of a traditionalist. There ARE "quickee" degrees in my book and this 12 month is in my opinion such one. As posted above, some people have degrees that put them in direct care of people in general such as pysychology but having a BS in say electrical engineering or music doesn't prepare them well enough for a tough nursing program. Being well informed or misinformed has nothing to do with it, this is just my opinion after almost 30 years of nursing, I don't like it and never will. You don't see MDs cutting their medical school in half just so there can be more doctors out there. We as nursing professional should expect the same. This is just a bandaid approach at fixing a severe nursing shortage and will eventually bite us in the butt down the road. Now, don't get me wrong there will be a majority of people who will do very well in this type of "fast" approach to nursing and a few will slip through that have no business in nursing but time will tell. Remember, this IS ONLY my opinion, so I don't need a bunch of people pointing out how "so wrong" I am. Just as before we won't be able to tell, as patients, which are the traditional nurse graduates as oppossed to the "fast track" nurses, but as fellow nurses most will be quite evident. MIke

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