Philippines News August 30-Sept5 issue - page 6

For those of you that have not seen it, there is a full article on the front page written by the Dean of the University of the Philippines School of Nursing stating: (the version that is in print in... Read More

  1. by   pinoy_guy
    Quote from tantrum
    I don't believe that a long period of clinical experience can screen off bad nurses.
    I agree.

    I have actually met nurses with 10+ years of experience who can't (or won't) accept newer/better ways of doing things.


    Quote from tantrum
    how can all the new RN's have local experience if they are not being paid properly if they work locally? Some are even paying for their "clinical experience".
    this is sad, but I think this is common now.


    Quote from tantrum
    She kept on parroting the flawed statistics by Galvez-Tan about hemorrhage of medical personnel.
    somebody should challenge this guy's statistics. he even went to the US to lobby against hiring of Philippine nurses.

    he said that "1,000 hospitals have closed down in the Philippines" because of alleged lack of nurses and doctors. if you don't think critically, you might just believe that statement based on his credentials.

    my question is, if 1,000 hospitals have really closed down, then where is that list of hospitals???

    the only "hospitals" that have closed are the health clinics in the rural areas--but then these were closed due to lack of funds. imagine health clinics with no medicine, no equipment, and no budget to pay for salaries of the doctors and nurses.

    doctors/nurses do not take a Vow of Poverty.

    we need money too. we do not aspire to be filthy rich, as some of these rabid crusaders against foreign deployment of doctors and nurses seem to imply.

    somebody should publicly challenge Galvez-Tan's statements and statistics to expose the inaccuracies.

    regarding "hemorrhage"...maybe they should get the real numbers in Manila. I bet there are tens of thousands (probably more!) of unemployed nurses.

    the nurses who actually get jobs outside the Philippines are a mere trickle compared to the glut inside the country.

    it should be noted that taking all the requisite exams costs a lot of money...and it is hard to pass all the exams.

    somebody credible should speak out, not this guy who spouts incredible figures.


    Quote from tantrum
    There are too many schools and too many RN's in the Philippines. Each year there is an exponential increase in the number of students and graduates in Nursing.
    exactly.


    Quote from tantrum
    What is lacking are the funds necessary to hire the right number of nurses.
    I agree.

    this is why it's frustrating to watch the news, and hear about billions of pesos being frittered away just like that.


    Quote from tantrum
    That's the reason why there is an absurd nurseatient ratio in govt hospitals, not because there are very few applicants.
    amazing, huh?

    I have seen hospitals with 2 RNs caring for 53 patients.

    and 16 nursing students assigned to one patient.
  2. by   tantrum
    The hospitals that closed are mostly small private rural hospitals that are losing money. This is a product of the economy (its the old mantra- its the economy, stupid) and not real shortage of personnel. Majority of the patients are too poor to go to a private hospitals. The FEW govt rural hospitals that closed are in remote areas without ANYTHING (meds, doctors,lab). If the govt just equip these hospitals and pay their personnel properly, there will be no lack of applicants.

    As for Retake and No Retake battle, I don't think there will be any winner regardless of the outcome. With the slow legal process and potential challenges up to the Supreme Court, it will probably take a year to have it settled. The PRC could have avoided this mess by not announcing the results and immediately retesting everybody. In that way, you don't divide the Nurses into the pro and anti retake group.
    The real lesson is to reform the system. I agree with proposal closing all review centers and mandate all the schools to give their own review (what are they teaching anyway?).They should also have independent body choosing the BON and NOT allow any dean or review center (if they are not dissolved) to choose any BON member or examiner. There should also be an increase in the salary of BON members (significantly) to match the salary of a dean of nursing.
    Last edit by tantrum on Sep 13, '06
  3. by   corrupted_caregiver
    The question is "when"? I can burn money (even though I'm in debt in the amount of hundreds of thousands) but the time.. We can't turn it back. Hahayz

    We need a major overhaul (this has been an issue since the time of dinosaurs but nothing happened). As I've said, to be a hero is to die young. If Jose Rizal will turn over again and again in his grave if he will see the country now.. Review Centers are there and thriving BECAUSE of the LACK OF PREPARATION in Nursing SCHOOLS itself. Hey, if you are well prepared, why waste money ayt? I mean, even UST, UP, and PLM are enrolling in review centers. So I think the schools are the ones that need to be improved. And improving it is a major overhaul to the educational SYSTEM that has been set decades ago. Schools are business institutions. It is governed by profit and loss law. Supply and demand. There is money involve (as evidenced by tuition fees). And if there is money involved, there is corruption. I smell corruption. Everyone becomes corrupted.

    Nursing Dx: Ineffective educational system related to appetite of school owners and stockholders for money

    I have to go on with my life again. Got to train as a medical transcriptionist. I mean, more knowledge makes more life meaningful, ayt? Wrong, wrong.

    :uhoh21:
  4. by   Rep
    Quote from tantrum
    The hospitals that closed are mostly small private rural hospitals that are losing money. This is a product of the economy (its the old mantra- its the economy, stupid) and not real shortage of personnel. Majority of the patients are too poor to go to a private hospitals. The FEW govt rural hospitals that closed are in remote areas without ANYTHING (meds, doctors,lab). If the govt just equip these hospitals and pay their personnel properly, there will be no lack of applicants.

    As for Retake and No Retake battle, I don't think there will be any winner regardless of the outcome. With the slow legal process and potential challenges up to the Supreme Court, it will probably take a year to have it settled. The PRC could have avoided this mess by not announcing the results and immediately retesting everybody. In that way, you don't divide the Nurses into the pro and anti retake group.
    The real lesson is to reform the system. I agree with proposal closing all review centers and mandate all the schools to give their own review (what are they teaching anyway?).They should also have independent body choosing the BON and NOT allow any dean or review center (if they are not dissolved) to choose any BON member or examiner. There should also be an increase in the salary of BON members (significantly) to match the salary of a dean of nursing.

    Letting the schools review their own students for the nursing board is a good move because they will put more effort in teaching the students and making sure they got the lessons right. This will make the schools more competitive in producing good students who will pass the board. Also this will discourage diploma mills since students will go to good schools instead them.

    This is business and that is why review centers are propping up and they want to produce high percentages of passing that some of them are willing to looks for ways to increase their rates to the point of cheating. Having a good passing rate will ensure a lot of enrollees in the review and that is money.

    Just my opinion.
  5. by   suzanne4
    Sorry, but the recent huge expansion of review centers has nothing at al ldo to with preparation of the student for the actual exams, but getting a kick-back from an agency................for every resume or nurse that they send their way.

    To be above board, no review center should have any type of contract with any agency, and I am even seeing it happen with new centers, that have not even had student go thru and graduate. And since most of the operators have no experience in the US, nor know nothing about how things are done here, they are more prey for unscrupulous agencies, without even caring about the nurse.

    And shame on them. If you are going to attend a review center there, please make sure that the operators as well as the instructors actually have a license to practice in the US, and investigate them. Several of the more popular ones, the license does not exist, or has been revoked. Be very careful on what you do............it is your money.
  6. by   dyan_gorgeous RN
    hello everyone.. i saw that news.. she said that not to degrade or even pressure those june 2006 passers but because she wants the newly grads to stay in the country to have some "at least 2 years" of experience before leaving the country because some students didn't have enough exposure to hospitals and this dean just want to build each of them the confidence.. but, given the situation that after 6 months of training as a staff nurse they still don't have salary.. some even call this exploitation because they are working as one of the hospital's staff already.
  7. by   Rep
    Quote from suzanne4
    And shame on them. If you are going to attend a review center there, please make sure that the operators as well as the instructors actually have a license to practice in the US, and investigate them. Several of the more popular ones, the license does not exist, or has been revoked. Be very careful on what you do............it is your money.
    Philippines does not require an instructor to be a US licensed nurse. Only a Philippine license will do, even these review centers will conduct reviews for the NLE and later the CGFNS or NCLEX. If one requires a Us licensed instructor then you won't find any becasue every one of them are already in the US. The salary of an instructor is not that much.

    In the city where I live before the review centers are staff by only Phil licensed nurses and I know some of them because they are my classmates.

    Way back in my time when I took the CGFNS, our instructors were only Philippine licensed except the one who taught us Mental Health who worked for a time in the US as a psychiatric nurse.

    Although it would be nice to have US licensed instructors but the thing is there are not any. And the government does not care a bit. They only care are the remittances we send back.

    The issue of leakages is an old story and it happened in every professional exams like engineering and medicine way back in 1990's where one medical school was suspected to have informations before the conduct of the exams that being conducted there but the thing is the issue died immediately. Investigations were done on that school but nothing came out because nobody wants to talk. The only thing happened is that school is remembered for that incident ever since.

    It is only the nursing leakage that brought so much attention for a fact that we Filipinos were known for importing nurses abroad and the mentally at home that Filipino nurses are known for their kindness and dedication towards the nursing profession which I do not agree because nationality has nothing to do with nursing care.

    I still thing that it is better for schools to provide the review themselves for the NLE and leave the CGFNS and NCLEX to others who can provide the instructors. And you are right that many review centers for the CGFNS/NCLEX have tie ups with agencies and that creates pressures for them to have their nurses pass these two exams regardless for what it takes.

    Even to the point of having the nurses memorized 3 or 4 questions from the CGFNS and NCLEX. These are just rumors I heard when I was in the Philippines and not a new thing to me.

    In my opinion, it is easy to cheat in the NLE considering that PRC are run by a few people who are greedy for money but for the CGFNS and NCLEX, it is not that easy.
  8. by   Rep
    Quote from dyan_gorgeous RN
    hello everyone.. i saw that news.. she said that not to degrade or even pressure those june 2006 passers but because she wants the newly grads to stay in the country to have some "at least 2 years" of experience before leaving the country because some students didn't have enough exposure to hospitals and this dean just want to build each of them the confidence.. but, given the situation that after 6 months of training as a staff nurse they still don't have salary.. some even call this exploitation because they are working as one of the hospital's staff already.
    Stay two years for what? Exploitation is the word for that.
  9. by   lawrence01
    Quote from Rep
    Philippines does not require an instructor to be a US licensed nurse. Only a Philippine license will do, even these review centers will conduct reviews for the NLE and later the CGFNS or NCLEX. If one requires a Us licensed instructor then you won't find any becasue every one of them are already in the US. The salary of an instructor is not that much.

    In the city where I live before the review centers are staff by only Phil licensed nurses and I know some of them because they are my classmates.

    Way back in my time when I took the CGFNS, our instructors were only Philippine licensed except the one who taught us Mental Health who worked for a time in the US as a psychiatric nurse.

    Although it would be nice to have US licensed instructors but the thing is there are not any. And the government does not care a bit. They only care are the remittances we send back.

    The issue of leakages is an old story and it happened in every professional exams like engineering and medicine way back in 1990's where one medical school was suspected to have informations before the conduct of the exams that being conducted there but the thing is the issue died immediately. Investigations were done on that school but nothing came out because nobody wants to talk. The only thing happened is that school is remembered for that incident ever since.

    It is only the nursing leakage that brought so much attention for a fact that we Filipinos were known for importing nurses abroad and the mentally at home that Filipino nurses are known for their kindness and dedication towards the nursing profession which I do not agree because nationality has nothing to do with nursing care.

    I still thing that it is better for schools to provide the review themselves for the NLE and leave the CGFNS and NCLEX to others who can provide the instructors. And you are right that many review centers for the CGFNS/NCLEX have tie ups with agencies and that creates pressures for them to have their nurses pass these two exams regardless for what it takes.

    Even to the point of having the nurses memorized 3 or 4 questions from the CGFNS and NCLEX. These are just rumors I heard when I was in the Philippines and not a new thing to me.

    In my opinion, it is easy to cheat in the NLE considering that PRC are run by a few people who are greedy for money but for the CGFNS and NCLEX, it is not that easy.
    Yes, very true Rep. The most these so-called Review Centers for NCLEX or CGFNS exam should do is hire instructors or in my point a "review facilitator" to conduct reviews for NCLEX or CGFNS should be NCLEX and/or CGFNS passers themselves and aware of the application process and the basics in the immigration requirement process.

    What I'm finding out lately is that most really do not know the process itself and when their students ask (and they surely ask queries) is that they keep pulling off things from the air just to answer the student's queries. In short, they base it on hearsays also. Some may not even be NCLEX/CGFNS passers themselves.

    For me, it does not matter if you get high scores in the NLE or if you have a M.A.N. or have a medical degree or how many years they have been teaching nursing in the Phil. or reviewers for the NLE If you haven't applied for any of the foreign qualifying exams and passed it then how can you teach something you haven't done or passed.

    But I do agree that the best ones to teach foreign qualifying exams would be a licensed US nurse. It should really be that way. Unfortunately, for what I'm finding out lately is that majority aren't even US licensed (not nclex passers) and some are US licensed but their licensed revoked in the US. This is a shame.
    Last edit by lawrence01 on Sep 16, '06
  10. by   suzanne4
    Quote from Rep
    Philippines does not require an instructor to be a US licensed nurse. Only a Philippine license will do, even these review centers will conduct reviews for the NLE and later the CGFNS or NCLEX. If one requires a Us licensed instructor then you won't find any becasue every one of them are already in the US. The salary of an instructor is not that much.

    In the city where I live before the review centers are staff by only Phil licensed nurses and I know some of them because they are my classmates.

    Way back in my time when I took the CGFNS, our instructors were only Philippine licensed except the one who taught us Mental Health who worked for a time in the US as a psychiatric nurse.

    Although it would be nice to have US licensed instructors but the thing is there are not any. And the government does not care a bit. They only care are the remittances we send back.

    The issue of leakages is an old story and it happened in every professional exams like engineering and medicine way back in 1990's where one medical school was suspected to have informations before the conduct of the exams that being conducted there but the thing is the issue died immediately. Investigations were done on that school but nothing came out because nobody wants to talk. The only thing happened is that school is remembered for that incident ever since.

    It is only the nursing leakage that brought so much attention for a fact that we Filipinos were known for importing nurses abroad and the mentally at home that Filipino nurses are known for their kindness and dedication towards the nursing profession which I do not agree because nationality has nothing to do with nursing care.

    I still thing that it is better for schools to provide the review themselves for the NLE and leave the CGFNS and NCLEX to others who can provide the instructors. And you are right that many review centers for the CGFNS/NCLEX have tie ups with agencies and that creates pressures for them to have their nurses pass these two exams regardless for what it takes.

    Even to the point of having the nurses memorized 3 or 4 questions from the CGFNS and NCLEX. These are just rumors I heard when I was in the Philippines and not a new thing to me.

    In my opinion, it is easy to cheat in the NLE considering that PRC are run by a few people who are greedy for money but for the CGFNS and NCLEX, it is not that easy.
    Unfortunately, there are some very unscrupulous people opening review centers over there now, and not with the goal of even really teaching, but selling the nurses' names to an agency to get a kickback from them. And the worst part is that they know absolutely nothing even about the agency, but have just heard their name before.

    They definitely do not have the nurses' best interest in place. Any review center needs to be strictly that, they should not have contracts with agencies.

    Some may not agree with that, but if you have seen the number of nurses that have contacted me to get out of contracts that were worse than what you see done to illegal aliens, you would be horrified.

    There is absolutely no reason that a nurse needs to atend a review center, it can easily be done on their own. I help students from all over the world, where they do not even have review centers and they pass.

    Adn then you throw in the issues with a couple of the more prominent review centers there, that are now being investigated for the leak with the NLE exam, there is nothing else to say on the matter.
  11. by   mayflower2000
    yes, its true. there is no need for one to attend a review center. you can do it on your own and still pass nclex. you will just have to do it religiously and understand what you have reviewed. it worked for me.
  12. by   pinoy_guy
    Quote from lawrence01
    should be NCLEX and/or CGFNS passers themselves and aware of the application process and the basics in the immigration requirement process.

    What I'm finding out lately is that most really do not know the process itself and when their students ask (and they surely ask queries) is that they keep pulling off things from the air just to answer the student's queries. In short, they base it on hearsays also. Some may not even be NCLEX/CGFNS passers themselves.
    amazing, huh?

    I attended an "Immigration Seminar" last year somewhere along Espaňa.

    after a few minutes of "you're gonna get filthy rich quick without breaking a sweat" speeches, they turned the talk towards the CGFNS & NCLEX reviews.

    it soon became apparent that the organizers had no intention of giving information on the Immigration process...but to have the people there sign up for their review courses.

    when the participants asked about Immigration specifics on what to do next, the organizers obviously did not know anything about the process.

    2 of the reviewers claimed to have US licenses: 1 in California & 1 in New York. when we checked online later, we couldn't find their names in the official rosters.

    another thing: when somebody asked about the IELTS, one of the organizers flashed a computer-printed transparency showing a grade of 8.5, which was what the speaker allegedly got. he claimed that the IELTS was "very difficult" but he breezed through it.

    he claimed that IELTS was composed of 4 exams, which were 4 hours EACH. & that he finished late at night.

    since I had taken the IELTS at that time, I knew he was blatantly lying.

    & yes, he also advertised his agency recruiting for the US. he said that it was only fair for his agency to get an hourly cut from salaries of RNs they deploy to the US because they helped send them there.

    since most of the participants in that "seminar" were regular nursing graduates, they accepted everything at face value.
  13. by   kalayaan
    i had a similar experience. my class went to a popular recruitment agency 3 years ago to find out the process. the agency gave us the long way - that one has to go through numerous steps, like you have to file applications after you passed one, that it really takes 2-3 years before you can leave, etc. they said that what they were saying was the only way. of course i didnt believe anything they said. but at least i found out for myself that agencies are not all trustworthy. so dont be surprised why it takes so long for a foreign nurse to come to the us. the immigration process takes a while but the agencies make you wait so much longer.

    and im not sure, but if i remember correctly, nursing review centers are also under the prc/bon.

    the world is full of money grabbers and advantage takers. folks, just remember that if you have any questions, go through the official website of the agency/office in mind and make a search there. if the answers are not there, call them. otherwise, ask help here.

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