MAN vs. MSN degree in Philippines

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Apr 29, 2008

One thought Suzanne provoked is possibly a student visa for the USA in an MSN program. My question is can the MSN in the US be completed and the application for GC upgraded under the Masters qualification?
The expense will be horrific on my part, but this very hard working and gifted student is so worth it!!

That's a good question and maybe Suzanne can answer that. But then again, you already brought up the issue of cost. Graduate degree programs, regardless of which field it is in, cost more than undergraduate courses. State universities in the US are usually affordable and that's were most students who are financially strapped apply to. However, the cost of state university tuition is only cheaper for students who are deemed residents of the the geographical area within the university's jurisdiction. A foreign student regardless of how long the student has lived in a particular state of jurisdiction, will not qualify for resident tuition in any state university.

A conservative ball park figure for state university tuition is about $800 per graduate course credit for out-of-state residents. This is the cost of tuition that foreign students will be charged. The total credits for a typical MSN program range from a total of 47 to 50+ credits. If you do the math, that's around $40,000 just for tuition alone. I have not included the cost of books, registration and application fees, and living expenses. Can you imagine how expensive that is if you look at it from the point of view of someone who is coming from the Philippines! Hoss, I am not commenting on how financially secure you are but my parents would have died from a heart attack had I been in the position of a Filipino nurse asking them to send me to school in the US for an MSN degree.

But don't be discouraged. There are quite a bit of us Filipino nurses who have indeed completed graduate school studies in the US. We were able to afford sending ourselves to school because we were able to avail of in-state tuition discounts since we were state residents in the public universities we applied to. In addition, we were eligibile for financial assistance and scholarships, and some of us worked our RN jobs at the same time we were in school so that we did not have to be financially ruined. My advice is to remain patient and take your time to weigh the benefits of your decisions. Five years will pass by. I worked in the Philippines for almost three years before I applied for a visa to work in the US. Maybe it's worth it to work in the Philippines and gain some experience while waiting for the retrogression to end...that's just a thought.

cstellar18 · Sep 27, 2009

hi hoss,

Im a filipino nurse also, and planning to take masteral degree also, its been a year since you posted this blog, and I wonder what happened? did you pursue or your daughter pursue masteral degree? thanks!

cedarebellion · Mar 4, 2011

yes I agree with suzanne and juan de la cruz. I'l be finishing my MAN degree here in the Philippines. I perfectly know it can't be used in the US. My MAN degree will be utilized wen I come back from the states to be a teacher or an administrator in a hospital in the Philippines

I do plan to complete my MSN in the states depending on the tuition fees.

lactamase · Mar 6, 2011

I've read of something like an "accreditation process" to make your MAN degree equivalent with a US MSN. Though I've heard it's only available for MAN program of UST and UP.

The local nursing author Udan has that in her profile.

I'm not really sure if it's true. What do you know about that?

suzakucarl · Mar 6, 2011

I've read of something like an "accreditation process" to make your MAN degree equivalent with a US MSN. Though I've heard it's only available for MAN program of UST and UP.
The local nursing author Udan has that in her profile.
I'm not really sure if it's true. What do you know about that?

Yes, a professor in UST told me exactly what you mentioned. I am not sure if other schools are included here aside from UST and UP. But for sure, UP and UST can undergo this process since they are more recognized than the rest.

And yes, I have talked with ms. udan personally, and she told me that her MAN in UST was acknowledged and she was able to make it into MSN.

Hoss · Mar 6, 2011

The "accreditation process" that I am familiar with is CGFNS Credentials and full Course by Course accreditation for graduates of the BSN programs in the Philippines to be "equivalent" to the Bachelors Degree Nursing in the USA. My step son had to provide "course by course" evaluation by CGFNS for Wash. State BON. It was about $400.00 US to purchase and a very detailed report was generated and the Univ. of the Cordilleras BSN Program (Baguio City).. was indeed certified as "Equivalent to the Bachelor of Science Degree" in the USA.

Does CGFNS (Commission on Graduate Foreign Nursing Schools) evaluate the MAN/MSN programs as well? I'm curious as to anyone that has this certification.

Hoss

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Mar 6, 2011

I've read of something like an "accreditation process" to make your MAN degree equivalent with a US MSN. Though I've heard it's only available for MAN program of UST and UP.
The local nursing author Udan has that in her profile.
I'm not really sure if it's true. What do you know about that?

I doubt that there is even such a thing as "accreditation process" to make your MAN degree equivalent to a US MSN. I know I'm sounding like a broken record but I'm just looking at this purely from the the perspective of role equivalency because the truth is a degree is a degree wherever you go. Anyone can attach the letters "MSN" or "MAN" after their name and hang a diploma on their wall that says they graduated from whatever university it is but nobody really would give a hoot because the true test of whether a foreign degree makes a difference at all is if the IEN who has an MSN from the Philippines can fill the shoes of a US-trained master's prepared nurse in terms of job responsibilities. I highly doubt your master's prepared nurses from there can just show up here in the US and start calling the shots like they are equivalent to the NP's, CNS's, CRNA's or whatever else. The specialty certification boards here in the US certainly don't hink so and I mean that with no offense.

I really think we should give this issue a rest. Why don't we try to improve the BSN training there in the Philippines instead of trying to see if the MAN there is equivalent to the MSN here because with all the bad rap we're hearing about how many schools there are substandard and how many examinees fail the NLE on their first attempt, pretty soon the US boards of nursing may not even recognize the entry-level BSN you get from the Philippines. Other countries are already requiring nurses from the Philippines to undergo more education to achieve equivalency with their entry-level RN programs, we don't want the US to be next don't we?

yourdaddynurse1013 · Mar 6, 2011

hi, i am an f1 status here in california and i pass the nclex-rn exam i want to apply also to nyc or get "certified" i dont have SSN yet. pls help...

lactamase · Mar 6, 2011

I doubt that there is even such a thing as "accreditation process" to make your MAN degree equivalent to a US MSN. I know I'm sounding like a broken record but I'm just looking at this purely from the the perspective of role equivalency because the truth is a degree is a degree wherever you go. Anyone can attach the letters "MSN" or "MAN" after their name and hang a diploma on their wall that says they graduated from whatever university it is but nobody really would give a hoot because the true test of whether a foreign degree makes a difference at all is if the IEN who has an MSN from the Philippines can fill the shoes of a US-trained master's prepared nurse in terms of job responsibilities. I highly doubt your master's prepared nurses from there can just show up here in the US and start calling the shots like they are equivalent to the NP's, CNS's, CRNA's or whatever else. The specialty certification boards here in the US certainly don't hink so and I mean that with no offense.
I really think we should give this issue a rest. Why don't we try to improve the BSN training there in the Philippines instead of trying to see if the MAN there is equivalent to the MSN here because with all the bad rap we're hearing about how many schools there are substandard and how many examinees fail the NLE on their first attempt, pretty soon the US boards of nursing may not even recognize the entry-level BSN you get from the Philippines. Other countries are already requiring nurses from the Philippines to undergo more education to achieve equivalency with their entry-level RN programs, we don't want the US to be next don't we?

We're being off topic here but BSN training offered by long-standing institutions are already world-class. Yep, a pretty big statement but that's was how Filipino nurses are viewed years ago before the nursing boom/surplus. The problem really is CHED can't shutdown all those substandard schools usually due to political connections (politicians owning some of those schools, owners having political connections).

To topic:

Well it's just that "almost" every nurse in the Philippines is thinking of practicing abroad. Those who are thinking of getting graduate degree would definitely consider whether they will just waste time studying here in the Philippines and not even having a tiny bit of their units being counted.

cedarebellion · Mar 6, 2011

The best solution guys, is to take MAN here in the Philippines. And another MSN in the states. So we have 2 master's degrees in our name

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Mar 7, 2011

We're being off topic here but BSN training offered by long-standing institutions are already world-class. Yep, a pretty big statement but that's was how Filipino nurses are viewed years ago before the nursing boom/surplus. The problem really is CHED can't shutdown all those substandard schools usually due to political connections (politicians owning some of those schools, owners having political connections).

Pardon me for being off topic. This has been a source of frustration for me as you can see. I'm amused at your use of the term "world class". Does that mean the grads of these "long-standing" institutions are trained to work overseas? I know the Philippine nursing curriculum follows nursing didactic concepts from developed countries like the US but is the clinical component similar as what US nursing students get? even at UP and UST? doubt that - healthcare is entirely different between the two countries.

To topic:
Well it's just that "almost" every nurse in the Philippines is thinking of practicing abroad. Those who are thinking of getting graduate degree would definitely consider whether they will just waste time studying here in the Philippines and not even having a tiny bit of their units being counted.

The BSN should be sufficient as the educational qualification for IEN's from the Philippines who are looking at findings jobs in the US, though in the setting of retrogression and high uneployment rate, this is really a moot point. If by some miraculous means, retrogression and the economic crisis goes away and the US starts begging to hire foreign nurses, then those with actual clinical experience that matches the needs of employers have the edge, not the ones with a BSN and a graduate degree in nursing with no actual clinical experience.

There has been talk about EB2 Visas in particular because this specific visa actually requires a high degree of specialization and an advanced degree (translation: graduate school degree such as a master's). There are available visas for this type for applicants from the Philippines. This can be seen as a loophole by some IEN's and those who champion their cause (translation: foreign nursing schools and employment agencies who look at it as a money-making scheme). Don't let yourselves be fooled because the problem with that is specialist nurses in the US such as APN's are required to have attended an accredited APN program and be certified in their specialty. At the current time, I have not seen a mechanism that could allow IEN's to accomplish that unless you're like me who got our master's degrees from an accredited university here in the US.

lactamase · Mar 8, 2011

Pardon me for being off topic. This has been a source of frustration for me as you can see. I'm amused at your use of the term "world class". Does that mean the grads of these "long-standing" institutions are trained to work overseas? I know the Philippine nursing curriculum follows nursing didactic concepts from developed countries like the US but is the clinical component similar as what US nursing students get? even at UP and UST? doubt that - healthcare is entirely different between the two countries.
The BSN should be sufficient as the educational qualification for IEN's from the Philippines who are looking at findings jobs in the US, though in the setting of retrogression and high uneployment rate, this is really a moot point. If by some miraculous means, retrogression and the economic crisis goes away and the US starts begging to hire foreign nurses, then those with actual clinical experience that matches the needs of employers have the edge, not the ones with a BSN and a graduate degree in nursing with no actual clinical experience.
There has been talk about EB2 Visas in particular because this specific visa actually requires a high degree of specialization and an advanced degree (translation: graduate school degree such as a master's). There are available visas for this type for applicants from the Philippines. This can be seen as a loophole by some IEN's and those who champion their cause (translation: foreign nursing schools and employment agencies who look at it as a money-making scheme). Don't let yourselves be fooled because the problem with that is specialist nurses in the US such as APN's are required to have attended an accredited APN program and be certified in their specialty. At the current time, I have not seen a mechanism that could allow IEN's to accomplish that unless you're like me who got our master's degrees from an accredited university here in the US.

Graduates of these long standing institutions are trained to practice according to the ideal standards. And as far as I know, the ideals of basic nursing practice doesn't differ wherever you are.

Also abroad does not always equate to US. This has also been a source of frustration for me.