Plan A Quashed. Need a Plan B

Ayvah, RN · Aug 20, 2009

Be careful about Excelsior, it has given people problems in the past due to it not always being nationally accepted. Some RN-BSN programs have flexible clinical portion, so you may want to look at the requirements of other schools. I'd also recommend posting on the Ob-Gyn board for their suggestions.

https://allnurses.com/ob-gyn-nursing/

Good luck!

**NickiLaughs, ADN, BSN, RN** · Aug 21, 2009

If you're looking for an RN to BSN program online, I believe Chamberlain is very reasonable. And their program only takes a year if you do the fulltime route.

dcav · Aug 21, 2009

Thanks for the warning about Excelsior. It wouldn't dawn on me that an NLNAC acredited school wouldn't be accepted all over. My friend graduated from their ADN program and had no problem sitting for NCLEX. Does that mean that even though she has a valid license, some places would make her start school from scratch if she wanted to go further? I know that CLEP creidts are not accepeted all over, but I thought Excelsior was.

Also, why would it be necessary to do clinical in an RN-BSN program? I work with someone who has a BSN, and we both do the same things. Of course there's the salary differential, but even that's not that much. To become an NP, that, of course requires clinical because that's a different scope of practice altogether, but an ADN and BSN sit for the same license.

Also, the whole point of going for a BSN at this time is that I can't afford to quit work or even go down to part time in order to have the time to do an RN-MSN (WHNP) program that requires a minimum of 16 hours a week plus homework. How will it be possible to do Chamberlain or any other program full time?

caliotter3 · Aug 21, 2009

After reading some of the comments in your OP, I thought maybe you could consider at some point, pediatric home health, if you don't continue on your present route. There are lots of peds cases out there with families that could use your expertise. Also, it would be a look toward a less strenous future because you would only take care of one patient at a time. Due to the flexibility in scheduling, you could work around any school schedule. Just a thought to consider along the way.

Moogie · Aug 21, 2009

Well, now I'm looking to further my schooling and for career direction. I cannot be a bedside nurse for the next 20 years. For the time being, as soon as I can, I want to transfer to L&D or Postpartum, preferably days. But even that is not what I want to end up doing "forever." I looked into schools that have a WHNP program, and discovered that even online distance programs require at some point 16 hours per week of clinical, which I just cannot do while working full time. Going down to part time is just not an option - we really need the money. So I need to know what to work toward.
The first step, I think, is to earn a BSN from Excelsior - the easiest and cheapest way. But what are my options from there. My dream was to work in primary women's health in wellness care. I hate bedside nursing. I don't like geriatrics, dementia, cleaning poop, breaking my already weak back and knees, and all that. I love communicating with patients and families, and teaching. I love explaining what's going on, what's the plan for patients, and why we do things. I love learning and incorporating that into my practice. I'm more of a brain than a brawn person. (Maybe I'm a nerd?) I've been made fun of by colleagues for talking to patients and families so much, for pushing lifestyle changes ("If these people were interested in changing their diets or quitting smoking they wouldn't be here in the first place.") , for thinking more like a doctor than like a nurse. I hate having to work fast to the point of sacrificing quality for speed. For example, I cringe when I see nurses put things into IV ports without wiping them first because it takes 2 seconds longer.
I'm really down about having to let go of another dream. So I'm trying to figure out what to aim for and how to proceed to get there. I would even consider working with a nursing career mentor if I knew how to get to one and it wasn't too expensive. Thanks for taking the time to read this. All the best.

What parts of your dream are most important to you? Is it women's health? Is it education? Is it communication? Is it preventative health? (And BTW, I disagree strongly with anyone who says you think more like a physician than a nurse. You ARE thinking like a nurse when you look at prevention and lifestyle changes. You may be very happy in community health as well as in an advanced practice nursing role.)

You say that the clinical aspects of an NP program are a barrier since you currently need to work full-time. How do you feel about tweaking your dream so that you can get enrolled in a program that won't require clinicals? If that feels like too much of a loss, then find a way to make the clinicals work. Remember, you wouldn't be starting them right away, depending on the program you choose.

Please don't focus on the negative aspects, the parts of nursing that you dislike. Look at what you enjoy. You say you love communicating and teaching. It's okay that you're more of a brain than brawn person and it's okay that you're a self-described nerd. So am I. Frankly, I think being a "nerd" is a great quality to have in a nurse educator. Have you thought about teaching?

At this point in your career, don't get hung up on the BSN. You know you want additional education, plus the best opportunities are for those with graduate rather than baccalaureate degrees. There are many RN to MSN programs available, many of which are online. You would still get baccalaureate level education in the first year of the program---you just would not get a BSN degree. And don't get caught up in the trap of trying to find the easiest and least expensive way to advance your education. If you're looking only for cost, you may run the risk of getting into a program that doesn't meet your needs, which will be more expensive in the long run.

At our age, time is not the luxury it was when we were younger. And neither is stamina. However, remember that older nurses do have maturity, wisdom, and a wealth of life experiences that enable us to bring something very different and unique into nursing.

Keep us posted---there are many of us on the path to higher education and career fulfillment. Again, tough in this economy but things are going to change.

Ayvah, RN · Aug 22, 2009

Hmm, actually since you are already licensed and are planning to go for RN-BSN it likely won't be a problem, but I know that people getting their initial nursing degree through Excelsior may have problems depending on what their state is.

I remember when I was doing my NCLEX it specifically stated that my state did not recognize Excelsior grads who wanted to sit for the NCLEX.

Here's a FAQs

https://allnurses.com/distance-learning-nursing/excelsior-faqs-work-204332.html

dcav · Aug 25, 2009

Moogie, your reply is particularly helpful. There is a method to my madness in doing ab RN-BSN first. My hospital will pay for $9000 per year for education through a Masters degree. Anything after that, they give nothing, which means it would have to come from my pocket. So far, the Masters programs that I have found online that don't require clinical are Nursing Education, Informatics, Leadership and Management, or Community Health. So doing a BSN is not really a waste of time since I figure that with the credits I already have (already have a BA), it'll take the same amount of time as the bridge part of an RN-BSN program anyway. The thing about nursing education is that it's possible to get a teaching job with any masters, so getting a degree in that is not necessary, and very limiting. I'm not against teaching, just it's not what I want to do now because it doesn't pay very well, and we need the money, unfortunately. If Community Health is home care, I don't want to do that because, A) I don't have a car, and B) I would need to work full time for benefits as opposed to per diem. Working full time means you have to go wherever you're sent, even if it's a dangerous area. When I'll be able to wind down and do a few cases here and there, then it sounds very promising. The point is, I don't want to use up the money on something that boxes me in, and find that I can't go onto what I really could've-should've done. There's no way I'm taking out more money in loans. We're already over our heads in paying back debt.

Right now, what I want to do is transfer to L&D or postpartum ASAP, and get into women's health. Maybe I could become an IBCLC, if my hospital will pay for it because that could also be a few thousand dollars. Independence College has an MSN program in Wellness, so I'm waiting for information on that. The name of that degree sounds nice, but if having it doesn't make one marketable, then there's no point. Sort of like Holistic Nursing. That and a MetroCard gets you a ride on the Subway (I'm from New York, after all). It's a matter of finding a workable compromise between what I want to do and what's realistic. I see the names of these nurses with a "million" initials after their names and wonder where they found the time and money to go for all that? Are they just professional students that don't have to work? Do they live by themselves that they have no family obligations? Are they superhuman and don't need to eat, sleep, shop, clean, do laundry, shower, and do they have Foley's in them so they don't have to waste time using the bathroom?

It'll work out in the end. It means being flexible. But Plan B can work.

Moogie · Aug 25, 2009

Moogie, your reply is particularly helpful. There is a method to my madness in doing ab RN-BSN first. My hospital will pay for $9000 per year for education through a Masters degree. Anything after that, they give nothing, which means it would have to come from my pocket. So far, the Masters programs that I have found online that don't require clinical are Nursing Education, Informatics, Leadership and Management, or Community Health. So doing a BSN is not really a waste of time since I figure that with the credits I already have (already have a BA), it'll take the same amount of time as the bridge part of an RN-BSN program anyway.

Thank you! You made my day! :)

I can't say I blame you for wanting to take advantage of your hospital's tuition reimbursement plan. I went back for my BSN fairly soon after finishing my ADN. At that time, there were no RN to MSN programs; had the option been available, I would have likely done such a program. The biggest problem I see with going ADN to BSN to MSN is that the various levels of education can be very time-consuming. But if that's the route that works best for you financially, go for it!

The thing about nursing education is that it's possible to get a teaching job with any masters, so getting a degree in that is not necessary, and very limiting. I'm not against teaching, just it's not what I want to do now because it doesn't pay very well, and we need the money, unfortunately.
If Community Health is home care, I don't want to do that because, A) I don't have a car, and B) I would need to work full time for benefits as opposed to per diem. Working full time means you have to go wherever you're sent, even if it's a dangerous area. When I'll be able to wind down and do a few cases here and there, then it sounds very promising. The point is, I don't want to use up the money on something that boxes me in, and find that I can't go onto what I really could've-should've done. There's no way I'm taking out more money in loans. We're already over our heads in paying back debt.

I was thinking more about public health, rather than home health, but unless you're doing some sort of community-based clinic, you would still be making a fair number of home visits.

I totally hear you on the woulda-coulda-shoulda business. It's wonderful that there are many options in nursing but it's also frustrating. You can waste a lot of time---and money---on a degree that doesn't get you the job you want. The thing is---you don't always know what you want until you already have the job. And sometimes the job you get isn't necessarily the job you want. :banghead:

Right now, what I want to do is transfer to L&D or postpartum ASAP, and get into women's health. Maybe I could become an IBCLC, if my hospital will pay for it because that could also be a few thousand dollars. Independence College has an MSN program in Wellness, so I'm waiting for information on that. The name of that degree sounds nice, but if having it doesn't make one marketable, then there's no point. Sort of like Holistic Nursing. That and a MetroCard gets you a ride on the Subway (I'm from New York, after all). It's a matter of finding a workable compromise between what I want to do and what's realistic. I see the names of these nurses with a "million" initials after their names and wonder where they found the time and money to go for all that? Are they just professional students that don't have to work? Do they live by themselves that they have no family obligations? Are they superhuman and don't need to eat, sleep, shop, clean, do laundry, shower, and do they have Foley's in them so they don't have to waste time using the bathroom?
It'll work out in the end. It means being flexible. But Plan B can work.

I also agree with you about getting a degree in holistic nursing. I would have loved to have gotten a graduate degree in parish nursing but considering that parish nursing is often a volunteer position, it would have made zero financial sense to go that route. There's also the whole issue about cost vs. benefit in that going to school full time means a significant reduction in income unless you are superhuman and can handle a full-time job and school at the same time. Do you quit work or decrease your hours so that you can finish school more quickly? Or do you take more time to finish school even though it means that you delay your degree, you job hopes and your gratification a while longer? And what happens if you can't finish school, maybe because of finances or family issues or just because life happens? Is it wasted time and money?

I am hoping to follow through with my own personal Plan A: go back to school and get my PhD so I can go back to teaching. But I'm a firm believer in Plan B---as well as Plan C and Plan D if necessary!

I love what you said about the Foley catheters. If I get into the program I want, I may need a couple! LOL!

HouTx, BSN, MSN, EdD · Aug 27, 2009

Very interesting dialogue going on here. I want to acknowledge the OP for her peronal insight and honesty. :yeah: Let's face it, few of us have will have the physical stamina to remain at the beside into our retirement years. I'm completely in agreement with the need to avoid any additional student loans!!!

I think there may be some angles that haven't yet been introduced. First of all, most "bricks and mortar" schools also have online/distance options now. They run the gamut from hybrid (part online, part classroom) to completely online... and usually for a LOT LESS $ than commercial schools. You'll end up with a degree that will also be completely undistinguishable from anyone else's who graduated from that university... another plus. Many programs are very welcoming- call them up and talk to them.

Another issue that you may not have considered; graduate school schedules are different and classes are usually held only once a week. I managed to complete (traditional) grad school while working full time. Classes are only once a week - and the university scheduled them all on the same day so I only had to have one day off during the week. It was very do-able, and I completed in 2 years. My clinical hours were done via independent study, and I could arrange them as I pleased. After all, it only takes 12-14 classes to get that grad degree.

Full-Time Graduate students are also eligible for 'stipend' options in traditional university settings -- as TA's, lab assistants, etc. I know a lot of people who were able to cut back to working PT during grad school because they had a stipend. Nowadays, there are a lot more financial options available due to the increased Federal emphasis on producing more MSNs.

Best of Luck. Make the time to talk to advisors at your local nursing schools before you make a decision. They will have all the latest news on financial support and distance options.

dcav · Aug 27, 2009

Thanks, you made MY day. I'm still investigating. What I've been told, and I don't know if this is true or just hype, that as far as what type of MSN degree to get, it's okay to get a leadership/management one. That helps with things like case management, risk management, corporate nursing, etc. After that, it's just a matter of doing a certificate program for a NP, which would have to come out of my pocket unless, of course I could get that stipend. Plus, who knows what the future will bring. I still need the benefits that only working full time bring for the forseeable future, so I'm going to forget the NP for now.

I still prefer distance learning to one-day-a-week programs. There's still commuting time. And I am leaning toward a brick and mortar distance learning program that has no residency requirements. It's not cheap, but it's very flexible, and the amount of classes I could afford with my employer's program is about the same as I can handle.

It's also important, I see, to do an accredited program. One program sounded great, but it's only accredited by some distance learning organization, not NLN or anything regional. How much would such a degree be worth? My guess is not very much.

I'll keep you all posted when I do decide and finally enroll. Just hope the procrastination bug doesn't strike.