Time to call a duck a duck? - page 2
I remember having this debate with other students while I was in school. I have seen nothing during my time practicing nursing to change my mind about the issue. Now, with the recession bringing... Read More
0Quote from ktreesOh, I forgot to add, if I do continue on, it'll be in informatics. I just..........think I'd be good at it.No, that is okay you call it what you want. You have every right to express your feelings. I feel sorry though because you are so unhappy in the profession. If you see the extent of your job as only patient care then you are not fully participating in your professional duties. May I suggest to you one of two options: 1) you have so much anger that it is time for you to get out. Maybe this is not your calling in life? Your work should blow wind up your skirt. 2.) You need to continue on and get your NP or DNP so that you may be fulfilled and transported to new levels of involvment.
Elle DNP, ARNP-BC
10Quote from rocki718I can see your point. I graduated from a BSN program and our class was called Leadership in Nursing. Floor nursing or any nursing that requires hands-on is definitely a labor. I do believe ADN programs prepare their nursing students to be clinically/technically competent whereas BSN programs groom their students for future management/ledership positions. In the past, I worked on a 32 bed med-surg floor caring for 8-11 patients at night with one nursing assistant for three RN's. It was definitely labor boot camp but I never expected it to be glamorous. We had patients that needed to be in the ICU but were kept on the floor because of the census. Talk about feeling like you just ran a marathon but what would really bother me is when management would come in during AM change of shift report and ask the nurses "how many baths did you do?" Now I can say that was in the past because I have been so fortunate, because of the BSN, to have "Professional" job offers where autonomy does exist take case management or homecare for example.
Actually, I'm from an ADN background and a lot of us felt unprepared for the clinical setting. We had plenty of fluff........leadership training, to go around.
My paper for that class was on "RN Delegation". I was interested in it because of my CNA background. Wanted to see what it was like from their end when then told me to do something. lol
After it was all said and done, I felt like I had written a paper that...........took something as simple as asking someone to do something and added tons upon tons of fluff to it. I did learn from it, basically learned I will be the scape goat if anything goes wrong. lol
14Jul 16, '10 by MinnieMomRNErik, Your post was interesting and thought provoking, but I can't say I'm ready to jump on your bandwagon. While I admit that I hold nursing diagnoses with the same respect as I hold pig-latin as a foreign language, I find nursing theory utterly relevent to practice (particularly Benner). Additionally, while I agree that the field of nursing is not where it needs to be as a profession, I do feel that there has been a marked advancement. IMHO, just because we are not yet where we need to be should not mean we retreat --- or maybe this is just my stubborn nature.
7Quote from MinnieMomRNErik, Your post was interesting and thought provoking, but I can't say I'm ready to jump on your bandwagon. While I admit that I hold nursing diagnoses with the same respect as I hold pig-latin as a foreign language, I find nursing theory utterly relevent to practice (particularly Benner). Additionally, while I agree that the field of nursing is not where it needs to be as a profession, I do feel that there has been a marked advancement. IMHO, just because we are not yet where we need to be should not mean we retreat --- or maybe this is just my stubborn nature.
Now thats just funny.
I think we would be so much further though if we let people think whatever it is they may and direct our energy towards........goals more likely to help the pt.
12Quote from NYRN05i disagree with you on so many levels....but answer me this...if you don't like nursing so much. then why are you here posting about it? are you a nurse? then i ask again why? go be a "professional" somwhere else...just my opnion ! maybe whatever job you have encourages this mindset....and if you accept it...then you own it. you will make your professional career what you want it to be.
you want to be the burned out bitter soul that puts down their own profession (yes thats what i call it)....then do. if you think cna's can learn nursing in a few years then i think by now we all would have been out of a job-heck i would have never went to nursing school then-i could've stayed a nurses aide according to you and would have known it all-your rationales make no sense. if you are so much better than you know where the door is...like my gma said...and on your way out...don't let the door hit you where the good lord split you !
and that's my true colors for you.....i know people like you who just want to get people all in a tizzy....its how you get your kicks. but i still love what i do each and every single day...its my profession...its my job....its what i was chosen to do. maybe you weren't...and you chose it instead. there are a lot of people like you who should have never became a nurse. it is for people like you....who just want to keep the profession from advancing with your negativity.....well i guess you could always flip burgers then right!
I've had people say this to me before actually. I'm starting to get a complex about it actually.
Maybe I should seek "professional" help ha ha ha ha.
50Jul 16, '10 by fungezI agree with everything you said. As it is now, nursing is a skilled trade. It might change someday, but I doubt it. I've been doing this nearly two decades, the money has gotten better but EVERYTHING else has gotten worse.
When I started they had things like transportation, hospitality, etc. Our time was considered too valuable to do nonnursing things. Unit clerks were staffed every shift, even nights. Now, if we get a clerk she's expected to take VS, pass ice, in short, to do two jobs for the pay of one. And then we get dinged if our phones aren't answered in a timely manner.
I read a thread once (not here) where a hospital administrator was moaning because because nursing salary was the biggest part of the expenditures. Well, yeah! Hospitals exist for no other reason for nursing care. If nursing care was not required everything would be done outpatient in Ambulatory Whatever Centers. Trust me, if they could the suits would drop our pay down to 15 bucks an hour. Since they can't do that they expect us to do every job under the sun. After all, we're the biggest drain on their financial bottom line.
So I think we should embrace our status as tradespeople. Schools, quit droning on about nursing theory (which can be summed up in six words ("we take care of sick people") and prepare your students for hospital work. No student should be writing any papers until he knows how to start IVs, insert foleys and run codes. That way, maybe they can get actual jobs when they graduate.
25Jul 16, '10 by CNL2BThis is going to be a very interesting and thought provoking thread.
I essentially agree with you, and I don't think that nursing is heading in the more professional direction, in spite of the never ending number of letters we can put after our name if we take the right exams. The market doesn't allow for it. The current healthcare system and reimbursement standards has reduced nursing to a commodity. In theory if we are allowed to practice to our fullest potential, well-educated nurses have the knowledge base to practice professionally. The issue that I see is that there is no reimbursement for that, and likely never will be.
I have seen very intelligent, well educated (master's degree and above) nurses get verbally put in their place by physicians. There is no respect for what we do, even at a high level of education. My current manager, who I respect very much (a BSN, MBA) has told me that she sits in on multidisciplinary meetings and her opinion means little because "I have 'RN' after my name instead of 'MD'."
Even if no one thinks we are professionals (and that's fine, if that's the way it is) I refuse to be treated disrespectfully. I still got through a college degree. I am still educated. There should be clear distinctions between what nursing does and what housekeeping does. There are standards for workplace conduct and they don't involve belittling people for the job they have, even if it involves wiping butts. With this whole "professionalism" debate, that is the biggest issue for me personally -- I don't really care if you want to call me a professional or not, but if you are going to stick up your nose because I do a dirty job, that's when I take issue.
4Jul 16, '10 by clemmm78I think you make some very interesting points. Some I agree with, some not so much.
I live in an area where the governing body seems to be turning its back on what nursing should be into what the politically correct people want it to be. I also think that nurses tend to be their own worst enemy many times, in all aspects from recruiting new nurses ("no! Don't go into nursing, it's an awful job."), to training them, to the administration and so-called professionalism of the nurses.
There are many tasks that a nurse does that a CNA could do, but there are also many skills that nurses are taught that you can't teach someone who hasn't been through more education than a CNA gets. But, is this the fault of the nurses?
As I said, interesting post. Should make for an interesting discussion as long as it stays civil.
12Jul 16, '10 by jzkfelNice post, Eric!
I don't agree with your entire argument that nursing isn't a profession - there are elements of nursing that I think make it a profession, but it when I think about why I love being a nurse, being considered a professional just isn't one of the reasons! I think what matters is my own attitude towards my job - not someone else's. I don't see being a worker as being less important or worthwhile than being a "professional". We have housekeepers at my hospital, but in the middle of the night if a trash can in a patient room is overflowing I don't feel at all demeaned by emptying it.
I agree that nurses are often defensive about their image to a degree that is counterproductive. It's the only profession I have seen where people cite their bachelor's degrees on their IDs! (I've seen some pretty good threads on that one...) Forrest Gump's logic would work here - professional is as professional does....