Time to call a duck a duck? - page 7

by eriksoln

81,935 Views | 547 Comments

I remember having this debate with other students while I was in school. I have seen nothing during my time practicing nursing to change my mind about the issue. Now, with the recession bringing out the true colors of nurses... Read More


  1. 4
    Quote from ShannonRN2010
    Wait...as an LPN, I was told that I was not a professional nurse, I was a technical nurse. Meaning I knew how do to basic technical procedures and had basic knowledge of why I was carrying out this order. However, the RN, with their educational background, made them PROFESSIONAL NURSES. (Case in point, the ANA only accepts RN as members).
    That ANA wants to eliminate LPNs, make ASN RNs technical nurses, and only allow BSN-prepared nurses to become managers.

    Psst... do not express the sentiments expressed herein in a professional transitions class (another thing most other professionals don't seem to need) or your life will be hell. Been there, done that.
    CCL RN, oliviajolie, SandraCVRN, and 1 other like this.
  2. 4
    Quote from AlmostABubbieRN
    That ANA wants to eliminate LPNs, make ASN RNs technical nurses, and only allow BSN-prepared nurses to become managers.

    Psst... do not express the sentiments expressed herein in a professional transitions class (another thing most other professionals don't seem to need) or your life will be hell. Been there, done that.
    Oh I had planned on going in and agreeing with the professor, reguardless of what my opinion is!
    One thing I have learned in my years of being a nurse?
    How to BS with the best of them... j/k ... I also learned this at Walmart, Wendys and Taco Hell, I mean Bell, basically anywhere I had to deal with management!
    LPNnowRN, oliviajolie, SandraCVRN, and 1 other like this.
  3. 4
    This is superficially similar to the question of NCO professionalism (check out this 1978 paper). But before we adjudge it identical, consider that there were once three professions: the priesthood, law, and medicine. So to call a military officer a 'professional' is a latter-day esprit de corps sleight of tongue. Why then should NCOs concern themselves over it? A soldier has always been a soldier.

    Medicine is different. Doctors have always striven for as comprehensive a mastery of the healing art as possible for the times. Although this has become relatively recently very specialized, the ideal remains, and extensive general training is still mandatory. That's why a nurse has never been a doctor.

    As for the term 'professional'? Office workers call themselves professionals. Cosmetologists, for crying out loud. Let 'em have it.
    oliviajolie, eriksoln, JacobK, and 1 other like this.
  4. 8
    Quote from AlmostABubbieRN
    That ANA wants to eliminate LPNs, make ASN RNs technical nurses, and only allow BSN-prepared nurses to become managers.

    Psst... do not express the sentiments expressed herein in a professional transitions class (another thing most other professionals don't seem to need) or your life will be hell. Been there, done that.
    Please do not let the ANA eliminate LPNs.

    I used to work in NZ and left for Australia. A big reason for me leaving NZ was that the NZ Nurses Council eliminated ENs (Enrolled nurses...similar to LVNs).
    This meant that healthcare costs increased as they had to pay an RN to do everything.
    Also meant RNs became very overworked. When I left I had an 8-10 pt load in ED with no help for turns and basic hygiene cares.
    P't complaints skyrocketed as they often had to wait too long for toileting etc ....the poor RN busy handling her crashing, sick new admits. Added to that ....they also eliminated nurse aides and replaced with healthcare assistants whose main responsibility is restocking.
    I had to juggle oesophageal and pv bleeds, severe COPD and chest pain AND try to push my elderly NOFs (on a trolley in the hall) somewhere private to place a foley.
    Please hang onto your LVN's and aides
    Chin up, ohioSICUrn, oliviajolie, and 5 others like this.
  5. 0
    Believe me, sister, you're preaching to the choir!

    What's an NOF?
  6. 1
    Quote from AlmostABubbieRN
    Believe me, sister, you're preaching to the choir!

    What's an NOF?
    # Neck of femur
    SuesquatchRN likes this.
  7. 12
    Quote from eriksoln

    I'm just suggesting that the desire/obsession with being considered a "profession" is holding us back. Its like we are rebels without a cause.
    Sing it, Brother! I don't guess I'm enough of a conspiracy theorist to think it's intentional, but I think a lot of the concern over professional standing tends to divide nurses. The debate over entry to nursing is a prime example. According to the ANA, and some allnurses.com members, I shouldn't be a nurse, because I'm only an ASN. My question is, who then will do what I and thousands like me are doing? And I don't mean only that associates and diploma programs are an ad hoc solution to a shortage of BSNs. Nor am I saying that nursing is only about passing meds and wiping butts and holding hands. Critical thinking is important! But it seems to me like a lot of advocates for professional standing are very nearly saying that nurses need to be doing what doctors already do, and seemingly disparage the things that nurses have always done. Why should academic nursing or political advocacy be more nurselike than, oh, say, taking care of patients?

    I've heard and seen "task-oriented," used as a perjorative. I am task-oriented. I've been a nurse for five years, now. I'm well aware that there is a bigger picture. A lot of times I can even see at least some of it. But, like many nurses (and many others) I'm a work in progress, and a lot of times I have to focus on the practical aspects of my job. I respect the nursing process, and I do believe that each part of it is important, but still, without Implementation, all of the other parts are just words. I actually have used NANDA nursing diagnoses in my practice. More often, I'm just thinking about what my patients' problems are and what can I do for them. I'm pretty sure I am capable, if need be, of writing a 20 page paper in APA format about my patient's anticipatory grieving. But I don't particularly want to be a writer. I want to be a nurse, and my patient wants a cup of tea and someone to talk to, and I think that might just give us a basis to interface constructively.
    Chin up, ohioSICUrn, CCL RN, and 9 others like this.
  8. 8
    Quote from pedicurn
    Re the nursing process ... It's the fact that it is formalized as a key nursing skill that is so embarrassing.
    No other profession does that. It is a 'given' in other professions....no need to formalize something so obvious.
    I agree. Assess/plan/implement/evaluate is a pretty basic problem-solving approach that tends to get beaten to death by some nursing instructors and taught as if it's something special taught just to nurses and will take time to learn well. It WILL take time to learn good assessment skills, determine the proper interventions, and competently provide care but the "nursing process" itself (aka generic problem-solving) is something I'd hope most nursing students came to the table already having a pretty good grasp of.

    Quote from pedicurn
    Yes many task orientated nurses do thrive....however I was making another point.
    Why is their contribution to nursing considered equal (or even superior) to other nurses who have the same practical skills PLUS the other skills?
    I hear ya! Many organizations reward nurses who are overly task-oriented because they get their meds done on time, have their charting done on time, leave work on time. Such nurses are favored among higher ups who prefer to blame problems on individual "poor time management skills" as opposed to chronic understaffing.
    LPNnowRN, AmericanRN, Bella'sMyBaby, and 5 others like this.
  9. 2
    Quote from ShannonRN2010

    I also have a slight problem with the thought that nurses are not respected in the community.
    What profession has been listed as the most trusted profession 8 years running?
    1. Nurses - 84 percent
    2. Druggists/Pharmacists - 70 percent
    3. High school teachers - 65 percent
    4. Medical doctors - 64 percent
    5. Policemen - 56 percent

    I think that the community looks at us as being professionals, obviously! Most ppl I encounter, respect the fact that I am a nurse.
    I think there is a difference between what the public thinks of nurses and what other hospital employees think of nurses (meaning MDs, pharmacists, management, therapy disciplines, techs, etc.) I believe this survey reports public perception. That doesn't mean that nurses are getting the respect they deserve in their respective workplaces (I would argue that they are not.)

    If you want to look at some interesting recent public perception that disagrees with your posted percentages, look up the Minneapolis StarTribune and some of the coverage of the recent nursing strike on the web. Read the comments on the articles. They number in the hundreds and hundreds. Largely, the public perception of the striking nurses is that they are lazy and greedy -- because of the economic climate, we too need to be doing more work for less money.
    oliviajolie and nursej22 like this.
  10. 2
    Quote from CNL2B
    I think there is a difference between what the public thinks of nurses and what other hospital employees think of nurses (meaning MDs, pharmacists, management, therapy disciplines, techs, etc.) I believe this survey reports public perception. That doesn't mean that nurses are getting the respect they deserve in their respective workplaces (I would argue that they are not.)

    If you want to look at some interesting recent public perception that disagrees with your posted percentages, look up the Minneapolis StarTribune and some of the coverage of the recent nursing strike on the web. Read the comments on the articles. They number in the hundreds and hundreds. Largely, the public perception of the striking nurses is that they are lazy and greedy -- because of the economic climate, we too need to be doing more work for less money.
    Yes, down here as well. I am often shaken by the public perception of us. With facility for online newspaper comments nowadays it is very easy for the public to voice their views. I have seen us described as ' dirty/lazy/fat/slothful/lowclass/slutty'.

    I don't think the public really see us as professionals. Perhaps in the generic sense only? With the rudeness I often receive in triage....I think they think I'm pond scum
    Scrubby and CNL2B like this.


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