Time to call a duck a duck? - page 6

by eriksoln

82,219 Views | 547 Comments

I remember having this debate with other students while I was in school. I have seen nothing during my time practicing nursing to change my mind about the issue. Now, with the recession bringing out the true colors of nurses... Read More


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    Quote from pedicurn
    Another thing that I ponder....
    Why can a PA walk into healthcare with an unrelated bachelors...only have two years of medical education and then be writing orders for nurses????
    Totally wrong, wrong, wrong
    Don't bash the midlevels. The PA must have a broad range of sciences under his belt and the two years of post-grad are intense. Six years vs. two for the diploma.

    Multicollinearity and wooh like this.
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    Quote from AlmostABubbieRN
    Don't bash the midlevels. The PA must have a broad range of sciences under his belt and the two years of post-grad are intense. Six years vs. two for the diploma.

    If the PA is a midlevel...then what does that make the bedside RN? LOW LEVEL?? ENTRY LEVEL??
    I have a BScN plus numerous post-grad certificates and a masters degree. I have more education than most PA's ...as do many of my bedside coworkers. I have been a nurse since 1982 and have an awful lot of knowledge. I don't think a PA is my superior.

    Let's compare this to medicine. Is the GP doc inferior to the surgeon? Just because the surgeon did a surgical fellowship?
    Aren't they both doctors? Does one of them become midlevel or highlevel? Ofcourse not.

    Yes I sound annoyed...because I am annoyed.
    We have given away so much.
    Example ... OT and PT evolved from nursing, they are supposed to be allied roles.
    So why are they writing orders for nursing???
    Nurses have let their power slip away. There was a glimmer, when I started nursing, that we might become real professionals. Now it's gone
    Last edit by pedicurn on Jul 16, '10
    trixie333, Chin up, want2banurse35, and 5 others like this.
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    I don't think I am inferior to anyone, nor superior. That goes from our medical director down to housekeeping.

    Midlevel simply means diagnostic/prescriber. You know that. That's simply the nomenclature. An NP or PA can diagnose and prescribe in certain situations and must hand off others to a physician. But if you want that role you have to train specifically for it and pass the boards. Were I younger I would do it. Had I 28 years of strong clinical experience I'd do it! You can become an NP online through some very strong programs.
    pedicurn likes this.
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    Quote from AlmostABubbieRN
    I don't think I am inferior to anyone, nor superior. That goes from our medical director down to housekeeping.

    Midlevel simply means diagnostic/prescriber. You know that. That's simply the nomenclature. An NP or PA can diagnose and prescribe in certain situations and must hand off others to a physician. But if you want that role you have to train specifically for it and pass the boards. Were I younger I would do it. Had I 28 years of strong clinical experience I'd do it! You can become an NP online through some very strong programs.
    Yes ...point taken....however what is inescapable is that the midlevels write orders for bedside nurses. There is no getting around this.
    The midlevels often have a whole lot less experience than the RN's as well ....some only have a couple years bedside before becoming nurse practitioners.
    Last edit by pedicurn on Jul 16, '10
    trixie333, oliviajolie, and Lupan like this.
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    Ok, I will start of saying I love being a nurse...(most of the time) and I am proud of my Associate Degree. I consider myself a professional, but I don't feel that we as nurses as treated as such. I usually feel like I am working at the Hilton. Customer Service, customer service...Blah! I know many people feel nurses are trustworthy, but they do not put us in the same league as other professionals. Lawyers, doctors, executives....those are considered "professions". I do feel we fall under the definition of a "Profession", but I think most of us nurses are not treated as such.
    trixie333, oliviajolie, sunkissed75, and 3 others like this.
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    Nursing is a pink (or blue) collar job.
    trixie333, quezen, and eriksoln like this.
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    Eric, I have one comment to your post: pffft! If you believe nurses are more like McDonald workers than, lets say, pharmacists, I'd like to know where you work, and avoid the place at all costs, either as a RN or a patient. Issues you list to support your opinion are not matter of professionalism, but political problems stemming from healthcare being treated as a commodity and not right. Not to mention that employers (which are out for profit, and not providing the best healthcare) very successfully manipulate the fact thar there is massive amount of self-loathing (as evidenced in lots of replies to this post) in the nursing workforce which prevents them from organizing and exerting pressure to improve both workplace and their status. I'm actually pretty amazed that California nurses (which are, by the way, best payed in the nation) managed to get such a strong union going, considering what obstacles they had to deal with. There are about three million nurses in the nation: we are the largest group of workers in the USA. If there is solidarity and will to stand for the profession (or trade, if you will), you would not have to clean wastebaskets, and would have patient workload that is in the best interest of the patient, not the profit. If that is to happen, nurses need to take pride in what they are doing, and demand to be treated as professionals that they are.
    One thing, though, I can do away with: silly nursing diagnoses. They sound like something from Monty Python.
    oliviajolie, Lupan, ToxicShock, and 1 other like this.
  8. 0
    Quote from pedicurn
    Yes ...point taken....however what is inescapable is that the midlevels write orders for bedside nurses. There is no getting around this.
    The midlevels often have a whole lot less experience than the RN's as well ....some only have a couple years bedside before becoming nurse practitioners.
    How about new physicians? None at all.
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    Wait...as an LPN, I was told that I was not a professional nurse, I was a technical nurse. Meaning I knew how do to basic technical procedures and had basic knowledge of why I was carrying out this order. However, the RN, with their educational background, made them PROFESSIONAL NURSES. (Case in point, the ANA only accepts RN as members). I felt I was a laborer as an LPN...a very skilled laborer...but yes, I felt my job was to basically lighten the RN's load so they could attend to the paperwork, assessements, ect. I was fine with that for 8 years!


    So now that I am an RN, you're telling me I am not a professional nurse? That a CNA could do my job? Yeah, I know lots of CNA's that know their stuff...but I can bet ya that somewhere along the way, they had an RN explain to them WHY we were doing XYZ for the patient.

    I also have a slight problem with the thought that nurses are not respected in the community.
    What profession has been listed as the most trusted profession 8 years running?
    1. Nurses - 84 percent
    2. Druggists/Pharmacists - 70 percent
    3. High school teachers - 65 percent
    4. Medical doctors - 64 percent
    5. Policemen - 56 percent

    I think that the community looks at us as being professionals, obviously! Most ppl I encounter, respect the fact that I am a nurse.



    Very interesting post though...made me think a lot. I start taking "Concepts of Professional Nursing" this fall with my BSN classes...so I think I will be bookmarking this to send to my instructor!
    oliviajolie, Lupan, RetRN77, and 2 others like this.
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    Just reading these posts made me way stressed out on the "are we a profession or not?!" opinions.

    Quite frankly... I don't care, personally, what you call me, as long as you respect me as a person. Me demanding you respect me because I had four years of college and have a Bachelor's Degree is tantamount to a doctor demanding I respect him because he had six years of college and has MD behind his name. I respect people based on their behavior, not based on their titles, and I don't expect anyone to automatically respect me because I have RN behind my name.

    Calling nursing a profession vs. a labor is like calling nursing a job vs. a career. For some people its a job, for others a career, just like for some its a profession and others its a labor. Nursing IS a service field. That's why I became a nurse, to SERVE people, not because I wanted to be a "professional". When someone mentions a professional I have the mental image of some dude in a suit or some chick in a two piece pant suit or something, and that's actually the exact opposite of what appeals to me about nursing (scrubs and tennis shoes are way more comfortable than skirts and stilettos).

    Its entirely possible to be professional without being a profession, and thinking respect is going to automatically fall from the heavens if nursing is ever "officially" declared a profession is foolish. Superiority complexes within physician circles, for instance, is always going to exist. To some doctors we will ALWAYS be "just a nurse". Its kind of like we're fighting to fit in even as we're fighting to stand out. We're fighting to validate nursing with physicians even as we're demanding to be separate from medicine. Entirely too much wasted energy is being put into changing people's opinions, and a "profession" as a whole is never going to be able to do that.

    Whatever you consider nursing, you must realize that it is diverse and necessary. And even if nobody else knows that, be content with the fact that you know who you are and what you're capable of, regardless of what anyone else calls you.
    readerwriter8, Chin up, LPNnowRN, and 12 others like this.


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