Hospital will not hire smokers

Nurses Professionalism

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I work for a hospital system that has incorporated such discriminatory blanketed policies. They are not simply banning smoking. They are banning NICOTINE! A chemical that in and of itself has not shown to have serious negative side effects (other than addiction, which in the absence of cigarettes is not as strong.). Some like 30 states have banned such policies, rightfully so. I am fine with not allowing smoking on campus or even not smoking before work (clothes). Hell, if they were able to test strictly for "cigarettes" I may be persuade. But not a blanket policy on nicotine so they can save money with the insurance companies. Individuals use all forms of nicotine (vape, gum, patches, sprays and I am sure other forms.) Bottom line, it is discriminatory as majority of other states have declared. I say shame on healthcare systems that implement such policies considering hospitals are to run based off scientific research and research does not support a blanket ban on nicotine. Just another corporation trying to save a buck no matter whom they step on.

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Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development.
8 hours ago, Jakehose said:

Bottom line, it is discriminatory as majority of other states have declared.

There is the potential for that declaration to be overturned as smokers are not a protected class. Private entities have the right to determine who they will and will not hire, provided those reasons would not be protected under law (race, color, national origin, religion, age, sex (gender), sexual orientation, physical or mental disability, and reprisal- from the EEOC). It may seem like discrimination, but under the legal definition doesn't meet the standards. For those who choose not to meet the requirements of an employer, they will need to find an employer that jives with their preferences. The same applies to those who don't have a BSN or who refuse flu shots. (Former smoker here)

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I have no issue with cigarettes to a degree. I get that smoke attached to other effects those around them. I also understand cigarettes themselves have a long track record of negative side effects. Mybissue is the blanket statement on nicotine. If someone gets off cigarettes and there 2000 plus chemicals and numerous carcinogens, we should not be turning qualified applicants away due to NICOTINE use. I too am an ex smoker. But I have used a vaporizer for the last ten years with 3mg of nicotine or less (cigarettes have 18 mg, plus everything else mentioned). But even if I was using nicotine gum or a patch, it would make no difference. What's next caffeine, sugar, high fructose corn syrup? If it was limited to cigarettes I could accept, but not an all out ban on nicotine that can be found in more than just a tobacco plant.

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Smoking nicotine can put holes in your heart, look it up.

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Specializes in Parkinson's, stroke. elderly care rehab.

From the UK:

There is a rather large gap between 'what should be' and 'what really happens'.

Where do we start?

I suppose it must begin with: I don't really understand the niceties of North American nursing, even after spending many hours discussing the subject with my sister in law, who retired from nursing in the US after some years, and my visits to US and Canadian haspitals, then professional organisations and conferences as part of my job as clinical editor of Nursing Times (which I left in order to return to practice).

So: please don't stomp me. This a Brit view from someone with forty years in the job, and my wife, ditto.

Declaration of interest: I still smoke. My wife gave up 25 years ago, and is very much against the practice, but we probably agree on some things following here.

A lot of attention is given to smoking as a stress reliever. I would like to re-word that: it is a great excuse to relieve stress. The nurse who says 'I can't handle this' is a wuss; the one who says 'give me five, I'm going for a smoke' is OK, it seems.

And that is why, when running a ward, I always tell the non-smokers to grab a five minute break, if it is possible, and on their return, the smokers can get outside.

If I were the sole registered nurse in charge, there was always someone to cover me from elsewhere, but only when they could be spared.

A restricted hiring policy on smokers. Good luck with that on the doughnut and other ultracolorific eaters, the people who wish to spread their version of passive smoking - which I call passive bigotry, I don't want to be subjected to inhaling idiotic bias - and the rest.

Brian

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2 hours ago, Banana nut said:

Smoking nicotine can put holes in your heart, look it up.

Nicotine causes PFOs and PDAs? Yes, please link me the reputable, non- bias scientific research evidence that nicotine caused these birth defect conditions. I would love to read it and see the significant prevalence of such defects being caused by nicotine in itself.

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2 hours ago, brianbooth said:

From the UK:

There is a rather large gap between 'what should be' and 'what really happens'.

Where do we start?

I suppose it must begin with: I don't really understand the niceties of North American nursing, even after spending many hours discussing the subject with my sister in law, who retired from nursing in the US after some years, and my visits to US and Canadian haspitals, then professional organisations and conferences as part of my job as clinical editor of Nursing Times (which I left in order to return to practice).

So: please don't stomp me. This a Brit view from someone with forty years in the job, and my wife, ditto.

Declaration of interest: I still smoke. My wife gave up 25 years ago, and is very much against the practice, but we probably agree on some things following here.

A lot of attention is given to smoking as a stress reliever. I would like to re-word that: it is a great excuse to relieve stress. The nurse who says 'I can't handle this' is a wuss; the one who says 'give me five, I'm going for a smoke' is OK, it seems.

And that is why, when running a ward, I always tell the non-smokers to grab a five minute break, if it is possible, and on their return, the smokers can get outside.

If I were the sole registered nurse in charge, there was always someone to cover me from elsewhere, but only when they could be spared.

A restricted hiring policy on smokers. Good luck with that on the doughnut and other ultracolorific eaters, the people who wish to spread their version of passive smoking - which I call passive bigotry, I don't want to be subjected to inhaling idiotic bias - and the rest.

Brian

It is late, but I am not clearly seeing your stance. For or against an all out ban on "nicotine" for employment?

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Specializes in Parkinson's, stroke. elderly care rehab.

dear Jakehose -

No, I am not in favour of a nicotine ban . Any initiative which helps smokers to quit - fine by me.

But so long as nurses aren't breathing cigarette smells onto patients, a non-hiring smoking ban seems silly.

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On 8/26/2019 at 9:02 AM, Jakehose said:

I work for a hospital system that has incorporated such discriminatory blanketed policies. They are not simply banning smoking. They are banning NICOTINE! A chemical that in and of itself has not shown to have serious negative side effects (other than addiction, which in the absence of cigarettes is not as strong.). Some like 30 states have banned such policies, rightfully so. I am fine with not allowing smoking on campus or even not smoking before work (clothes). Hell, if they were able to test strictly for "cigarettes" I may be persuade. But not a blanket policy on nicotine so they can save money with the insurance companies. Individuals use all forms of nicotine (vape, gum, patches, sprays and I am sure other forms.) Bottom line, it is discriminatory as majority of other states have declared. I say shame on healthcare systems that implement such policies considering hospitals are to run based off scientific research and research does not support a blanket ban on nicotine. Just another corporation trying to save a buck no matter whom they step on.

Is there a way to test for nicotine that can distinguish a smoker from a person who consumes nicotine in other forms?

Also, hasn't it been in the news lately that vaping is actually showing itself to be quite unhealthy? I'd have to do a search, but I'm too tired at the moment.

A chemical that in and of itself has not shown to have serious negative side effects (other than addiction, which in the absence of cigarettes is not as strong.).

I don't know about that. I dated a guy who dipped snuff and he was incredibly addicted. A neighbor of mine also had the same problem. He actually died of head/neck cancer at age 40. His wife told me it started in his gums and the dipping was thought to be the etiology of his cancer.

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Recent reports of serious issues are being linked to black market products (regulation and education).

Nicotine is addictive, no disputing that , but degrees vary from person to person same as any other drug addiction. My point was that nicotine alone has shown to be less addictive in the absence of the full to tabacco.

Chewing tobacco still has carcinogens excluding nicotine and I would imagine other chemicals that not in themselves are cancerous.

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Specializes in Critical Care; Cardiac; Professional Development.

The ban on nicotine has more to do with the American system of medical insurance and the fact that it increases the cost of insuring all employees, not just the nicotine addicts. As such, all the nonsmokers are basically subsidizing the increase in healthcare costs for the smokers, as is the facility itself for its portion of the premium. Yes, there are similarities between that and obesity and other bad habits, but this is the one they are tackling for now and this is the topic at hand. It isn't about the nicotine. Its about what it is costing the facility to insure those addicted to nicotine. The more smokers/dippers/chewers/vapers there are on the plan, the more the insurance company charges to insure everyone on the plan.

There is zero denying smokers increase healthcare costs. So do diabetics and cancer patients and those with obesity yada yada. Smoking is pretty easy to nail down as a habit that can be changed and is pretty straight forward. The others not as much.

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Specializes in Parkinson's, stroke. elderly care rehab.

I think it might be worth thinking about how much smokers contribute to society. We pay tobacco duty and die young.

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