brianbooth

There's a standard joke in Brith nursing - no doubt you have equivalents - 'I know how I want to die. At the age of 90, shot in bed by a jealous husband'. We have family in Texas; they also spent three years in Oklahoma. I have learned a lot about cultural differences but the best example was, when buying some jeans, to be asked about whether we had denim in Europe. I'm not wandering here - cultural differences matter, and as nurses, we need to know about them. Smoking, body mass, faith - they are all part of the job.

Take a moment to award yourself a common sense award

Thank you, MSOforu. I am going to reiterate my comments so far, so we don't stray off track. My entry into nursing was strongly contested because on the form, under 'religion', I entered 'none'. Yet my worst experiences, and my wife's, have been under nurses and one particular midwife who all believed that women bore Eve's curse, and should suffer for it. If you smoke - as I do - it does not matter a toss, providing you can move fast in an emergency, and you don't exhale tobacco breath over your patients. Ditto with weight. BMI is a nonsense. If you can run, you are OK by me. Let's appoint nurses by ability, not ticked boxes.

Some fascinating information here for Brit nurses. On age as an employment bar: a major UK company chain called B&Q, which sells hardware, decorating materials, fitted kitchens and bathrooms, gardening stuff - and more beside - tried an experiment in the 1990s where they actively employed older people, including (mostly) those beyond the state retirement age. These were floor jobs. They found that these people worked more efficiently, were more punctual, used up less sick leave - and tended to be able to answer customer queries more knowledgeably. In no time flat, they upped the programme, and a lot of other similar companies scrambled to get on the bandwagon. A lesson to be learned there.

I can't comment on US nursing working pactices; I can only say how I worked it the UK, and believe, on the whole, my way worked. Others may disagree. As the nurse in charge, if I couldn't leave the ward, then hard luck. In my absence, staff seemed to get that they followed my rules or paid the price.

I completely agree, but it seems once again I have failed to make my point clearly. Smoking breaks are not a right ; they could be construed as fraud. However, having run a ward or two, I believe that there are times when nurses should be allowed to get outside and sort themselves out, without waiting for a scheduled break. The smokers have the excuse of 'needing a cigarette' - better than saying 'this is all too much' - so I have always extended the offer of 'fresh air' to non-smokers, shared fairly. Giving someone an unscheduled five minute break is, I believe, preferable to having them crack up on me. And if any smoker took a 30 minute break - I would sack them on the spot.

Considering that I have some experience of writing about nursing, and encouraging others to do so - feel free to check me on CINAHL, Medscape and other sources - I seem to be doing a pretty poor job at deposition. I ask your forgiveness for repeating things I have mentioned elsewhere. Please note: nursing candidates applied to universities, not hospitals, from the early 1990s, making all that follows mere history. When I started nursing in 1979, in the UK, you had to go to the occupational health (OH) nurse before the interview. That person could veto your application, or delay it, on the spot. This is general medicine. Mental health - another story. I'll give some examples of decision making. None were ever scientifically based, and in the current climate, may be seen as 'wrong', but that was how it was at the time. Smoking: normal then. All wards had smoking areas for the patients. Being a smoker did not matter to the assessment process. Weight: the OH nurse weighed you, and without anything other than their visual observations, the candidate could be asked to lose a few pounds and reapply when they had achieved the (subjectively chosen) weight. Skin conditions: anyone with an obvious facial condition was told to get treatment and reapply. Visible tattoos: not a chance. Goodbye. To some of you, this may all seem odd, perhaps outrageous. But that is how things worked 40 years ago, and I can't help but wonder whether there are lessons to be learned.

Thank you. I can only add to this that in my opinion, BMI is a largely useless measure of anything. I once nursed a super fit boxer whose BMI made him out to be obese. You could have used his abdomen as a carving board.

I think I have failed to make my point about this thread, which comes down to me not explaining myself well. 1. The debate about nicotine and its effects is separate, I believe. 2. If employers wish to refuse hiring nurses on the grounds of lifestyle, they might consider widening the parameters.

I refer you to a thread elsewhere here, where you can see my comments on this idiocy. Feel free to stomp on me. But in the case of an emergency - and I speak from experience - give me the smoker over the calorifically challenged any time.

To follow this thread: I wish to make a plea. Every contributor has made pertinent comments, and I especially like the demands for evidence. But it has become split; the question about nicotine is one thing. My son, a passionate anti-smoker, bought me the top of the range vape. That is for one thread. The chief thing I'd like to see is a discussion about refusals to smokers' applications for nursing jobs. That. to me, is beyond stupid and needs to be challenged. Please find a way out of this. As a UK nurse, I feel that it should be left to you lot to get talking about these issues separately. Brian

Testing for chemicals: I have had bit of experience dealing with people working on building sites in the UK. Employers conduct random tests which can detect a rather large selection of drug use, and over the years, they can date traces back to 90 days or more. Nicotine as a sole marker? Oh come on...

Please bear in mind that our UK 'free at the point of delivery' healthcare service does not mean we are a Communist state. It is about looking out for each other.

I think it might be worth thinking about how much smokers contribute to society. We pay tobacco duty and die young.

dear Jakehose - No, I am not in favour of a nicotine ban . Any initiative which helps smokers to quit - fine by me. But so long as nurses aren't breathing cigarette smells onto patients, a non-hiring smoking ban seems silly.