Should nurses strike?

funnygirl_rn · Jun 22, 2003

Rnstudent...Give it a rest. Thanks!

roxannekkb · Jun 22, 2003

>>Give it a rest

Ditto. I'm outta here. And just for the record, RNstudentK, I was not "backed" into a corner, as you so eloquently put it. Far from it. And as Hardknox says, come back after you've working for a while, and then let's see if you sing the same song. But this is my last post on this topic. Debating with Bender and RNstudent is an exercise in mental endurance, one which I really don't want to waste any more time with. :nono:

bender73 · Jun 22, 2003

Originally posted by funnygirl_rn
Give it a rest.

Now there is a well thought out intelligent reply!!! :rolleyes:

I guess if your not a floor nurse then we will never understand how horrible life is. Forget sweat shops, roofers that work 12 hour days in 90+ degree heat, pavers, miners, etc.. A 32-40 hour work week at $35+ dollars an hour is the pinnacle of hard labor. Oh the horror!!! (yes I admit that was quite a bit of sarcasm)

I could not resist. RNstudent had such intellectual things to say and got bashed...probably for mentioning my name.

Feel free to strike if you want. We will always have more dedicated nurses like RNstudent to eagerly work those shifts and put the patient's needs first over management.

bender73 · Jun 22, 2003

Originally posted by roxannekkb
>>Give it a rest

Ditto. I'm outta here. And just for the record, RNstudentK, I was not "backed" into a corner, as you so eloquently put it. Far from it. And as Hardknox says, come back after you've working for a while, and then let's see if you sing the same song. But this is my last post on this topic.

Give RNstudent a break. Her posts were very well thought out and intellectual.

funnygirl_rn · Jun 22, 2003

Bender...I really don't feel like grovelling with you or rnstudent. Have more interesting things to do with my time.

Gator,SN · Jun 22, 2003

Roxann, I applaud your responses to this thread!

bender73:

"The problem is, I am just saying what a lot of people think and you don't like to hear it. Oh well. Go gripe to the poor guy that used to make $80,000/yr in high tech and now has no job or any prospects due to the poor state of work in that field."

*When nurses are able to make people aware of all the problems in nursing and the "poor state of work in this field" that cause them to strike in the first place, then maybe they will solve the high tech workers problems too!

"What I do know is what I see and hear in the hospital and on the news."

*And what the people on this board are trying to tell you is what they know from experience. They live and breathe it everyday. They don't have to watch the news or poll co-workers.

"Oh, and please stop with the CEO bashing. Do you really know what CEOs do? My uncle is a CEO of a corporation and works way more than me or most RNs (or doctors for that matter). Don't play that card because unless you personally know what a CEO does on a daily basis, you can't make that argument. Being a CEO can be a 24/7 stressful grind"

*Well, I guess your uncle should just suck it up and go to work and do his job!. He's lucky to have a job ya know! Besides, it won't be too long before corporate execs decide that someone much younger and less experienced would be better suited for his position, but hey, at least he has one right now. Theres no use looking toward the future or trying to make anything better. By the way who are YOU to talk to anyone about CEO's, your a NP remember, you don't know what a CEO does either, you only know what your uncle told you. Maybe Roxanne was a CEO before she became a nurse!

"I had a chat with a random ER nurse today at work to get his opinion. I told him exactly what I said to see if I was really wrong in my thinking. He was totally in agreement with me. He was tired of picketing RNs so he changed hospitals."

*Please tell me where this guy worked. If it happened so much that he got tired of it then inform the thousands of nurses on this board so they can avoid ever stepping foot in the place.

"I guess if your not a floor nurse then we will never understand how horrible life is. Forget sweat shops, roofers that work 12 hour days in 90+ degree heat, pavers, miners, etc.. A 32-40 hour work week at $35+ dollars an hour is the pinnacle of hard labor. Oh the horror!!! "

*Are you comparing college educated men and women with hard laborers....???

because most roofers, plumbers and construction workers make more than that. WHen was the last time you called a plumber? Maybe you can find a website for pavers and miners and pat them on the back for all the hard work they do. Share the address, I'd like to add my comments too!

To RNK:

"My first post and all I get for a response is walk a mile in our shoes? Why not try walking a mile in my shoes. Some of you people make it sound like you have the one and only most demanding job in the world. Get a grip on reality. I worked with the most difficult, mentally ill, dangerous, and challenging people for long hours and under sub-par conditions. All you have to say is walk a mile in our shoes? "

*Well, RNK, if it was so great and you didn't mind the conditions why did you quit? Actually what did you do for the person that was hired to take your place? Did you try to make the conditions better for them. How about your poor patients? If you are a psyche major then you already know that too many problem patients to only one counselor is detrimental to them and their progress. What did you do to help them? Your working conditions were "sub-par" as you put it, so what steps did you take to make sure that your patients, who are already at risk were protected????

If the answer is, Nothing, then all you've done is contribute to the problem. If you went to management and complained then you are a whiner!

Your answer has not explained to me why it is ok not to care anymore..

*NO ONE on this board has ever said that it was OK not to care anymore! Actually most of the responses to this thread said the opposite. Did you bother to read them or were you just quick to jump in post to cause trouble?? If you are actually a student and going into nursing then you would know that an experienced nurse is a valuable asset and that college professors wouldn't tell you in a thousand years the real truth that is available on this board, if you take the time to read and research. "

rested,

Gator

bender73 · Jun 22, 2003

Originally posted by funnygirl_rn
Bender...I really don't feel like grovelling with you or rnstudent. Have more interesting things to do with my time.

That's fine. All we have received is "give it a rest" from you and I am in la la land according to someone else. Just look at RNstudent's post and re-read some of mine. We're not degrading anyone here in particular but you and some others are quick to degrade us with comments.

bender73 · Jun 22, 2003

Gator,

Great response!!! Finally!!! Thank you. I see your points and I may not agree with all of them, but it made me think.

I am not comparing laborers to RNs or NPs completely per se...I was merely getting tired of some other remarks and wanted to make the point that being an RN is not a horrible job where your forced to work in extreme conditions dictated sometimes by the environment. I was a paver. 12 hour days and lots of burns. Very hard work.

I likely know a lot more about what CEOs do from my experience with my uncle and his many companies.

I will obviously not mention the guy's name from the ER...but you already know that.

I listen to what people on the board say and remember...I am also a nurse in a big hospital, I admit/follow pts, and I go from floor to floor so I see a lot.

High tech failed because of the economy. Remember, we are in a service industry. A service industry differs from high tech in so far as high tech is predicated upon supply and demand...when the economy is sub-standard, product demand (hence development) goes down. Thus, supply and demand (combined with the economy) dictates business growth and also downsizing. We are actually very fortunate to be in a service industry.

I think RNstudent reflects the attitude of a lot of young eager nurses and its our job to encourage and not say things like walk a mile in our shoes.

teeituptom, BSN, RN · Jun 22, 2003

Howdy Yall

This started as should nurses strike and would you cross the picket line ya'll

But it did turn to a good example of why nursing unions dont have that much strength.

1. Nurses all types if you want to type them, tend to have different gripes about the sustem.

2. Nurses tend to believe what their strike leaders tell them.

3. Nurses place different values on their gripes also. Some are calling for better pt care as the highest value of their concerns. Some deem higher pay to be their true value in their eyes. Some deem respect as a profession to be their greatest concern. Etc. Their are as many different values and concerns as there are nurses. The sad thing is intelligent, pridefilled nurses listening to all that unionist rhetoric. And then they do what their unions tell them to do. Unions arent our conciousness.

4. So listen to the unions, and strike. I love strike busting money.

5. THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF NURSES IN THE US. They are there but just choose not to work for whatever their personal reasons.

6 I do agree that bringing in all these foriegners is to our detriment and isnt good for pt well being. Not by a lomg shot.

allnurses Guide · Jun 22, 2003

And Tom's post shows why a unionized ideology won't work . .. . nursing is too diverse with too many opinions about what is broke and how to fix it. There is no "one voice". Each individual working situation is different and needs to be handled by the people involved. I can represent myself quite adequately without paying some guy who dresses like the mafia and wears diamond rings bigger than Texas (hyperbole there folks about the diamond ring size but the union rep did dress like that).

To answer the question, I would not strike.

steph

-jt · Jun 22, 2003

LOL!!! Omg! lol. Well, I dont know who that guy was but he couldnt possibly have been a nurse & that cant have been an RN union. We sure dont have any that fit that description running the nurses unions around here. STAFF NURSES run their union themselves. Ok so back to the question... would you strike?

No you wouldnt, so what would you do then when your hospital has cut staff so much that you cant physically and safely care for the pts entrusted to you and you have no help, you are forced to be responsible for too many pts & cant give everything that each of them needs, and may miss subtle signs of problems in one while your too busy flying by the seat of your pants with the other 8, and your license is held on the line, or you are forced to work excessive hours that can cause you to be a threat to the pts safety yourself (cause you are vulnerable to making a medical error or other mistake due to being over-tired or overwhelmed), the hospital will not spend the money to hire the staff or provide the resources that you need for you to be able to do the job that your pts require of you, and the salary, benefits, administration attitudes towards nurses or whatever else it is that is making nurses stay away from jobs at your hospital will not be improved upon to help recruit & retain more nurses so you can have safe, manageable pt loads & do your job right. And management tells you to be glad you have a job & just deal with it - and will not discuss your concerns about the working conditions and how they affect the quality of pt care.

What do you non-union nurses do? Just leave it at that? Or abandon those pts by quitting & looking for better employment?Dont your pts deserve a nurse who is a true pt advocate and fights for them to be in a safe environment, with a nurse who is able to function safely, optimally?

Dont you care about the pts? Dont they deserve to have a nurse who is not exhausted and prone to making a mistake with their life? Dont they deserve a nurse who has a manageable pt load and give them the care they need?

I mean no disrespect and maybe there are just plain differences in our regional cultures, but I fail to see how a nurse who is standing back quietly putting up with abusive, dangerous working conditions that she knows are negatively affecting the quality of pt care and is putting the pts at risk is being a "pt advocate". Allowing these kinds of conditions to perpetuate & doing nothing to stop it is more detrimental than giving a 10 day notice that you will no longer be party to putting your pts at risk with unsafe staffing & the like.

Sometimes you have to draw the line & say "no more". We strike over pt safety issues. Recrutiment & retention incentives are part of that because if nobody wants to work at that hospital, there can be no safe staffing. Strikes are a last resort when all else has failed to get the hospital to respond. The hostpial has 10 days to move pts to other facilities, cancel elective surgeries & stop admissions. That monetary incentive is usually enough to get them to start talking about the issues & make compromises & the strike many times doesnt even happen. In the rare time that a strike does happen, nurses are available to care for the pts. No pt is abandoned in a strike. If the hospital chooses to disreagrd its pts, does not downsize its pt population during the 10 day notice, & allows the pts to be kept in the midst of it all, that is a point to take up with management, not the nurses who are on strike.

I really would like to know what do you non-unions nurses do when the situation is dangerous for you & your pts and your hospital will not address your concerns? Grinning & bearing it & "doing your best" while allowing your pts to continue to be subjected to an environment that cant give them the care they need and may even harm them does not seem to be the best option. It also flies in the face of your nurse practice act & national code of nurse ethics that both require you to protect your pt from harm & to speak out against anything that might cause them harm.

So if you dont strike, what DO you do to get things like unsafe staffing practices fixed when your employer wont pay any attention to you?

Hardknox · Jun 22, 2003

Originally posted by RNstudentK
Wow, some of you people have a serious chip on your shoulder. So much bitterness.

Hardknox,
My first post and all I get for a response is walk a mile in our shoes? Why not try walking a mile in my shoes. Some of you people make it sound like you have the one and only most demanding job in the world. Get a grip on reality. I worked with the most difficult, mentally ill, dangerous, and challenging people for long hours and under sub-par conditions. All you have to say is walk a mile in our shoes?

Again...backed up into a corner...and your reply to my honest and respectful answer was demeaning and callous. I don't understand you???? you are a nurse, right??? Why so hostile and bitter to a nursing student who like other nursing students look up to you and follow in your footsteps to become good nurses. Is this what you are going to say to every eager nursing student only wanting what's best for the patient is. "Walk a mile and our shoes and see if you sing the same song." I also cannot understand why you single out and label people (i.e. "nursing student" and "Nurse Practitioner). Yes. we may have different titles but we all went into the medical profession for a reason...To help... Your answer has not explained to me why it is ok not to care anymore...why it is ok to practice negligance and leave a patient's bedside. I know in my heart that I cannot leave a sick patient waiting for his/her pain med to go and picket.

Again, this is my opinion. I welcome intelligent and respectful thoughts on what I am writing. I do not welcome cold and callous remarks. This may be a "touchy" subject with many but I know that RESPECT can go a long way. Take a step back and think before you reply.

Thank you :-)

There is nothing demeaning or callous in my post. After you become a bedside nurse and have been on the forefront of nursing as many of us have (ie:"walk in our shoes") I want you to come back and tell us if you feel the same as your #1 post. That is not demeaning you, that is telling it like it usually is. Having NOT been a nurse yet, it is very easy to be so sure of yourself. Again--walk a mile in our shoes, then tell us what you think.

Are you aware that statistics say that most new grads last less than 2 years in nursing???