Should Healthcare Be Funded As A Basic Human Right? - page 16
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- 2Dec 10, '12 by Ntheboat2Quote from PRICHARILLAisMISSEDWe already went over this. People who don't even have to make an effort already get Medicaid and have been getting it for a LONG time. The healthcare bill is designed to help those people who ARE making an effort (aka working) that don't fall into the Medicaid category, but can't afford what their employer offers. It's a pretty simple concept.But the problem with healthcare funding being automatic is that if people don't even have to feign an effort, !
- 0Quote from Fiona59I have no quarrel with you or your fellow citizens, Fiona59. I am glad that the people in your circle of acquaintences have never had to file for banlruptcy, and I wish you all continued happyness.So, you think anyone that lives in Canada and Europe are serfs?! That we have no freedom? We have no liberty?!
I can assure you that we do not live in fairytales or under the yoke of anyone.
Nobody I know has ever had to declare bankruptcy due to paying for healthcare.
The mind boggles.
I shared my point of view without insulting anyone, and never criticised your country in any way. Why does my having a different opinion than you make you so angry?
- 3Dec 10, '12 by MunoRNI sympathize with your plight CountryRat and certainly don't think you have any character flaw because you fell on hard times. I had sort of given up on the idea of convincing you that not everyone who needs the help of others is lazy, irresponsible or feels entitled, they just have a rough life. Having experienced that first hand, I would think you'd be easier to convince. Bankruptcy by definition is when you are unable to pay your debts fully, you pay what you can, but the rest of what you owe falls to the rest of us. Personally I'm ok with that, you're a well meaning, responsible person who had some bad luck, just like most people who need some help.
- 0Dec 10, '12 by PRICHARILLAisMISSEDQuote from Ntheboat2All the while making the employer responsible for making this happen while also making the employer provide insurance or face significant fines. So again, making someone else responsible for cleaning up a mess that they had no part of.We already went over this. People who don't even have to make an effort already get Medicaid and have been getting it for a LONG time. The healthcare bill is designed to help those people who ARE making an effort (aka working) that don't fall into the Medicaid category, but can't afford what their employer offers. It's a pretty simple concept.
And as for the first part of your quote (bolded), You already know how I feel about the abusers. But I don't want to get into that and have Admin erase my post for going off topic.
- 0Quote from Ntheboat2I obviously did not express myself clearly, since your reply does not answer my questions, so please let me try to pose my questions more clearly. What I asked you was, how much more should I have paid my credtors than the amount that I did pay when my wife and daughter were in danger of dying, and how did you handle this kind of situation when you had to make these decissions?I'm not the one judging others who are asking for help. The fact that you are is what makes it hilarious.
Yes, it is hilarious that you make statements like this:
When you so obviously weren't responsible with your own money.
So, you don't think you were a burden to all the companies whose debt you wrote off? You think filing bankruptcy is being RESPONSIBLE?
Someone who isn't financially capable of providing healthcare for their family is no more irresponsible than someone who isn't capable of paying for TVs or entertainment so they swipe a card and then leave the bill on the creditor's back.
It's rather ironic...don't ya' think?
As for judging others, what did I write in my post that was judgemental of others?
- 3Dec 10, '12 by woohQuote from CountyRatI think what he's saying is YOU are awful judgmental of others that can't afford their medical bills when you couldn't pay all of your bills yourself.I obviously did not express myself clearly, since your reply does not answer my questions, so please let me try to pose my questions more clearly. What I asked you was, how much more should I have paid my credtors than I did when my wife and daughter were in danger of dying, and how did you handle this kind of situation when you had to make these decissions?
Why is bankruptcy, which makes others pay for what you couldn't pay for yourself, such a morally superior option to accepting government assistance, where others pay for what you can't pay for yourself?
- 0MunoRN and Woow, what did I write that you found judgemental of others?
A poster referred to a young friend who suffered bankruptcy due to healthcare bills. I have had a similiar experience, and commented on my point of view. I never wrote that people in need should not get help, nor did I criticise anyone, write judgementally of anyone, or accuse anyone of bad behavior.
As for your comment, MunoRN, that you, "had sort of given up on the idea of convincing you that not everyone who needs the help of others is lazy, irresponsible or feels entitled, they just have a rough life" I think that you are mistaking me for someone else. I have never written any such rediculous things, nor have you tried to convince me of anything. I think you are addeessing someone else.
We have different opinions. Why does that make you so angry that you feel the need to accuse me of writting things that I have never written?
- 0Dec 10, '12 by MunoRNI apologize CountryRat if I misread your posts, I did not intend to twist your statements, but my impression came from statements such as the one that seemed to tell people who needed help that life is hard and they aren't entitled to anything (as though most aren't already aware of that), and other statements including"Do I have a right to eat food? After all, I will die without food much sooner than I would without healthcare, so the same argument should apply.
The answer is, yes, I do have a right to eat. However, that begs another question: Since I have a right to eat, are not the people posting in this blog obligated to take me to the grocery store and buy the food I need? Or, should I just be allowed to go to the grocery store and take whatever I want without paying. After all, it is my right, so you have to give it to me, right?
Wrong. My possession of a right to sustain my life with food does not obligate you to provide the means of enjoying that right out of your pocket. I have the right, but I still have to pay for what I need. This is the gaping flaw in the "healthcare is a basic human right" argument. Even if that proposition were true, it does not justify forcing my neighbor to provide me with the means to enjoy my rights by taking money that he has earned honestly away from him."
Again, if I got something out of that which you didn't intend I apologize. I'm beginning to think that you were sharing that not because you didn't think others were sufficiently aware of that and were being patronizing, but because you yourself are more than sufficiently aware of that and were just punctuating, which I misread as the former rather than the latter.Last edit by MunoRN on Dec 10, '12 : Reason: Trying to un-indent the last paragraph
- 2Thank you, MunoRN, for helping me understand you better, and, of course I accept your apology. I have goofed when blogging more times than I care to remember, so I know how easy it is to make that kind of mistake. I know that it was nothing personal, so no hard feelings.
You are correct that I have commented that "life is hard," but I probably just did not express myself as clearly as I should have. I try to form opinions on social and political issies in terms of principles rather than by judging peoples' motives or reacting to feelings. My posts are just attempts to define the principles that underly important questions. I am not criticising those who see issues differently than I do. I kmow that my opinions are flawed, but I do not always know why, so I debate to identify where and why those flaws are.
I appreciate your challanges! They enable me to see where my point of view is distorted, and help me correct my errors. I am grateful for the oportunity exchange ideas with thoughtful people like yourself; not because I think that I can (or should) change your mind, but rather, to change mine as I consider the merits of the arguments of people who disagree with me. I am grateful for the chance to bounce these udeas off you.
That was an awfully clumsy mcetaphore, and my spelling, which is terrible on a gpod day, is gettimg worse, which probably means that I am tired and should get some sleep. With your kind permission I will leave on that note, hoping that I will meet you again within this forum. We will probably find that we agree more often than disagree.
Good night, and best wishes to you, Wooh, Ntheboat2, and anyone else who might be online.