Schwartznegger on Hannity and Combs tonight.. - page 6

In case anyone is interested, I just saw an ad for Hannity and Combs on Fox News Channel tonight saying that Arnold will be on tonight. In a few minutes, actually. Have no idea what the discussion... Read More

  1. by   fergus51
    But what's stopping them from changing those ratios tomorrow? Nursing shortages come and go and as soon as they have more nurses than they need, there is nothing making them keep those ratios. There is a big difference between hospitals being forced to maintain ratios forever and being willing to maintain them today. It's not statewide or even county wide and it only protects you, and what kind of consequences does the hospital face if it doesn't meet its own voluntary ratios? It's a bit like a fox guarding the henhouse.
    Last edit by fergus51 on Mar 13, '05
  2. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from fergus51
    But what's stopping them from changing those ratios tomorrow? Nursing shortages come and go and as soon as they have more nurses than they need, there is nothing making them keep those ratios. There is a big difference between hospitals being forced to maintain ratios forever and being willing to maintain them today. It's not statewide or even county wide and it only protects you, and what kind of consequences does the hospital face if it doesn't meet its own voluntary ratios? It's a bit like a fox guarding the henhouse.

    I'm a pretty self reliant union member, but I also care about what happens to the nurse who is scared and more vulnerable to being pushed around. I don't want her to get thrown to the wolved just because she can be. I've seen it happen. Minimum ratios aren't important for a hospital like yours that is apparently very reasonable, if they are already meeting them. In those cases the ratios are irrelevant. The problem is what about the places that aren't? What about the places that can find nurses they can push around?
    If my hospital tried to change things, we would have them over a barrel as there aren't exactly any other nurses they could hire except travelers and that would not be cost effective. Plus our DON is a great lady and a rapid nurse advocate.

    I don't know what to say about nurses who don't stand up for themselves. There are people like that everywhere, in every profession. Do we need a union for every single person in the United States?

    And all hospitals are not completely evil. They do have some points to make about costs and such.

    What has always bothered me about this is the casting of hospitals in the evil corporate role and nurses in the angelic put-upon poor enslaved role.

    Neither is true.

    steph
  3. by   fergus51
    Quote from stevielynn
    If my hospital tried to change things, we would have them over a barrel as there aren't exactly any other nurses they could hire except travelers and that would not be cost effective. Plus our DON is a great lady and a rapid nurse advocate.

    I don't know what to say about nurses who don't stand up for themselves. There are people like that everywhere, in every profession. Do we need a union for every single person in the United States?

    And all hospitals are not completely evil. They do have some points to make about costs and such.

    What has always bothered me about this is the casting of hospitals in the evil corporate role and nurses in the angelic put-upon poor enslaved role.

    Neither is true.

    steph
    I have never castigated hospitals as all being evil or nurses as all being saints. Your hospital is obviously pretty reasonable. My problem with their voluntary ratios being compared to mandatory ratios is that they are voluntary and can change anytime. No one knows what tomorrow will bring. Your hospital could be sold to a different company. Your DON could be replaced by someone less reasonable. Your new hires could be less assertive. The nursing shortage could quickly become a nursing surplus. When I started nursing school, we had a surplus in Canada and nurses had to move to the US or UK to get work! That wasn't so long ago (early 90s). Immigration rules could change allowing an influx of nurses. My semirural upbringing taught me to hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Any way you cut it, voluntary ratios just don't do that because they are voluntary.

    Do all professions in the US need to be unionized? Of course not. Should all professions that require certain ratios or hours of work in order to save lives be mandated? Yes. They should. Your surgeon shouldn't be allowed to operate on people for 36 hours straight. Air plane pilots shouldn't be allowed to fly 40 hours without a nap. A nurse should not be allowed to look after 8 fresh post ops or 4 women in active labor. Unions aren't necessarily the only way to get ratios mandated by law that protect ALL nurses and patients, but NOTHING else has yet. No group of nurses has ever gotten together to do this. I applaud you and your colleagues for working out ratios at your facility, but that's no where near on the same level as mandating them in the state legislature.
    Last edit by fergus51 on Mar 13, '05
  4. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from fergus51
    I have never castigated hospitals as all being evil or nurses as all being saints. Your hospital is obviously pretty reasonable. My problem with their voluntary ratios being compared to mandatory ratios is that they are voluntary and can change anytime. No one knows what tomorrow will bring. Your hospital could be sold to a different company. Your DON could be replaced by someone less reasonable. Your new hires could be less assertive. The nursing shortage could quickly become a nursing surplus. When I started nursing school, we had a surplus in Canada and nurses had to move to the US or UK to get work! That wasn't so long ago (early 90s). Immigration rules could change allowing an influx of nurses. My semirural upbringing taught me to hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Any way you cut it, voluntary ratios just don't do that because they are voluntary.

    Do all professions in the US need to be unionized? Of course not. Should all professions that require certain ratios or hours of work in order to save lives be mandated? Yes. They should. Your surgeon shouldn't be allowed to operate on people for 36 hours straight. Air plane pilots shouldn't be allowed to fly 40 hours without a nap. A nurse should not be allowed to look after 8 fresh post ops or 4 women in active labor. Unions aren't necessarily the only way to get ratios mandated by law that protect ALL nurses and patients, but NOTHING else has yet. No group of nurses has ever gotten together to do this. I applaud you and your colleagues for working out ratios at your facility, but that's no where near on the same level as mandating them in the state legislature.
    Specific to my hospital . . . there is no way things would change for the worse because there are no nurses here to replace us.

    Of course that is unrealistic for the rest of the country and I completely get what you are saying.

    Really.

    Hey, I'm headed to the movies now (off topic :chuckle . .. gonna go see "Hitch" . . . have a good night now dear Fergus.

    steph
  5. by   fergus51
    Hope your movie is good! I have to go to work... sigh...
  6. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from fergus51
    Hope your movie is good! I have to go to work... sigh...
    I have 7 more days off!! :hatparty:

    Not gloating . . sheesh my family is waiting for me . . .

    steph :chuckle
  7. by   fergus51
    Quote from stevielynn
    I have 7 more days off!! :hatparty:

    Not gloating . . sheesh my family is waiting for me . . .

    steph :chuckle
    :chuckle Well, after tonight I have 8 days off and a friend coming to visit... I am gloating, btw :chuckle I can't wait!!! My best friend and I haven't seen her in over a year, so we'll do all the touristy Disneyland stuff and have a blast
  8. by   teeituptom
    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    which one????? Don't scare me now, Ted. :uhoh21:
    GWB, and that is scary indeed
  9. by   SmilingBluEyes
    the other Bush was a jailbird right? At least that was what I thought.
  10. by   grandee3
    Well said Begalli!
    to everyone else; PATIENTS IS A VIRTUE
    Quote from begalli
    While some of those who are against nursing unions do not support the work that unions do to ensure safer and more rewarding work environments for all nurses resulting in safer delivery of patient care, YOU reap those benefits as a non-union nurse as well. And if you're in the state of CA, there's NO WAY you can deny that.

    Nursing unions, specifically the CNA, are getting and have gotten things done. Which cannot be said about other large organizations claiming to represent the recognition and betterment of professional nursing. In my opinion, I am sick and tired of reading blah, blah, blah about study after study of this and that problem in nursing by the talking nurse heads in our professional journals!

    I come to these message boards and find hundreds upon thousands of posts by mistreated, unhappy bedside nurses. Last night I read an AJN that was filled to the brim with this problem in nursing to that problem in nursing saying we need to do this and that. How long has this been going on? What's been done to address these problems? To me, these representatives of nursing look FAR more whiney and embarressing than ANY nurse protesting for change. Big deal! They can do research. Can they evoke change?

    Screw the political games! Lets get something done! Policies written about in our journals like Open Visitation in ICUs, for example, by nurses with a string of the alphabet following their names DOES NOT make for safer or more satisfied nurses or delivery of patient care. I want to be sure that when I or someone I know needs nursing care, they will get it from a nurse who has the TIME to provide this attention. I also expect nurses to be able to deliver this care.

    I can say that I have had this experience first hand as a family member of a dying patient whose nurse was not available to be with the family because of her overwhelming patient load that day. It was gut wrenching for family and I'm sure it was gut wrenching for the nurse as well.

    Nancy2 - I take exception and resent your generalization that unions promote "laziness and complacency." This is calling ME lazy and complacent. I'm proud to be an RN and take this responsibility very seriously.

    I'm here, as well as thousands upon thousands of other nurses I'm sure, with ears and eyes wide open to listen to and implement ideas that will get the results that have been obtained by the CNA from those who disapprove of the way the CNA gets things done. How DO we do it your way?

    I think sometimes people are so short-sighted when things are going well for them personally. This happens in ALL areas of life. We must look beyond the tip of our own noses in many situations. This is one of them.
    :angryfire
    Last edit by grandee3 on Mar 17, '05 : Reason: Misspelled word

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