Is healthcare a right or privilege?

hearts895, RN BSN · Feb 1, 2010

If it is a right, then we have some work to do. If a privelidge, you get what you can pay for, right? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

In a country as good as ours it should be a RIGHT. Most of Europe and a few other countries (1st world countries like us) regard healthcare as a right. Unfortunately, America is always the one 1st world country behind all the rest of the 1st world countries in terms of public policy for the good of its citizens. Don't get me wrong, I love my country and I'm proud to be an American, but I feel its an honest fact. The U.S. is full of people that don't believe in providing a decent "base line" for all, regardless of social status etc. They believe healthcare is a PRIVILEGE. I volunteered at a free clinic and I saw many, many good hardworking women who worked day & night at fast food restaurants etc. (some married, some unmarried) come in with their terribly ill children. Without the clinic, they would have had nowhere else to go. Furthermore, in some cases there was only so much care the clinic could provide. I would like to have all those who are against providing healthcare to those without it, look those children in the face and say "No, you don't deserve healthcare." We pay for a lot of silly stuff with our taxes - lets pay for something good for a change, like paying to take care of our fellow Americans. To me, there is nothing political about it, its just called being a good citizen. JMHO :)

hearts895, RN BSN · Feb 1, 2010

I just had this debate with a bunch of people in a philosophy forum!
My take: whether healthcare is a right or a privilege is COMPLETELY meaningless. Really. Healthcare is essential for society to function properly. If you want to live in a civilized, productive society, you MUST provide healthcare. Complaining that it isn't a "right" misses the point that sometimes life isn't fair; you might not like the fact that it is necessary, but it is. So is some form of government; so are prisons (which your tax dollars ALSO go to support. Maybe we should just be executing felons, it would save money!); so is public education.
Substitute healthcare for education. Can you imagine ever having a debate about whether or not we should be providing free education to children? Can you imagine people complaining that their taxes shouldn't go to provide public education for someone else's children (and, sadly, this does happen)? There are many families who could never afford to send their children to school if school cost money, or even if there was no bus service. They would also benefit from putting their kids to work instead of sending them to school. Maybe we should be pushing for that, eh?
Without taxes going to support social services, or some way of providing and delivering social services to those who could not afford them otherwise, you don't have a country. You have Somalia. The fact that an organization that usually provides free care to impoverished, underdeveloped nations recently set up a free clinic in Tennessee should be considered a national shame.
The strange thing about all this is that between providing healthcare and enshrining free speech, healthcare is far more important when it comes to extending your lifespan. Yet one is considered a right and one is not.

Excellent post! I couldn't agree more!

MarvinMartian · Feb 1, 2010

So...we have a portion of our society which does not see the death of fellow citizens for lack of health care access as problematic...

That's a personal stance. Not everyone feels the same about everyone. It's also not 'wrong' however you feel about someone. It may be unhealthy for the feeler but it isn't wrong.

we have citizens who base the value of fellow humans upon whether or not they are "contributing" to society...

Everyone does this. Everyone. Note the fact that you can't be a nurse if ever convicted of certain crimes. Even if the said crime took place decades before. Even if the person is now a contributing member of society. Even if they have become trustworthy. People place themselves in certain groups and society treats them accordingly.

and we have political leadership which is more interested and engaged in playing politics, improving their payscale, and remaining in power than they are in actually improving things for the everyday american.

This will always be true.

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Feb 1, 2010

So...we have a portion of our society which does not see the death of fellow citizens for lack of health care access as problematic...we have citizens who base the value of fellow humans upon whether or not they are "contributing" to society...and we have political leadership which is more interested and engaged in playing politics, improving their payscale, and remaining in power than they are in actually improving things for the everyday american.
How do we, as american citizens, reconcile these things? How do we insure that our government be as concerned about the well being of it's population as it is with other, off shore events?
Do you think it is possible that we could convince our elected aristocrats to relinquish control of health care reform so that experts might have a voice in the design?

I see you point, except if I switch death due starvation or lack of housing - would you feel that is a right too?

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Feb 1, 2010

So...we have a portion of our society which does not see the death of fellow citizens for lack of health care access as problematic...we have citizens who base the value of fellow humans upon whether or not they are "contributing" to society...and we have political leadership which is more interested and engaged in playing politics, improving their payscale, and remaining in power than they are in actually improving things for the everyday american.
How do we, as american citizens, reconcile these things? How do we insure that our government be as concerned about the well being of it's population as it is with other, off shore events?
Do you think it is possible that we could convince our elected aristocrats to relinquish control of health care reform so that experts might have a voice in the design?

I see you point, except if I switch death due starvation or lack of housing - would you feel that is a right too?

I have never seen a person in crisis denied healthcare, what I have seen they lack preventive care, I agree with you our system is broke, I don't know if I agree with your solutions.

nicurn001 · Feb 1, 2010

I wish our employers would put the full cost of our healtcare upon our paychecks ,because I believe some think that what they have taken out of their paycheck is all that it costs them to recieve healthcare . If you also saw the full amount your employer paid for the insurance , maybe people would realise why some simply cannot afford healthcare . The only time we get an inkling of the real cost of healthcare is when we are unemployed and see what COBRA costs , or try to get individual insurance .

tewdles, RN · Feb 1, 2010

Medsurg...I did not actually propose a solution in the post you quoted, so...I am not certain how to respond.

In terms of health care being a right...I posted previously that I believe that health care is a necessity and that discussion attempting to classify it as a right vs. privilege is actually a distraction to the greater discussion about reform of our system.

I do believe that access to health care should not be tied to employment. I believe that access to basic health care should not be based upon the ability of an insurance company to make a profit while "insuring" that access. I believe that the ability of a person to pay a large deductable or copay should not limit that person's ability to seek needed health intervention. I believe that such requirements adversely affect the health care of the poor above any and all other social groups. I believe that politicians, lawyers, and lobbyists should not be defining our system nor designing any improved health insurance or delivery systems, experts in the field should.

I look forward to ongoing discussion on the topic and hope that our elected officials continue to have discussions as well.

MarvinMartian · Feb 1, 2010

I'm on ehealthinsurance.com right now...

For a 32 year old smoker monthly prices are ranging from 80$-250$ (individual) and 250-630 (family 1 smoker 1 spouse and two children) for plans from Aetna, BCBS, Kaiser, etc.

All with reasonable deductions, limits and copays...

With the exception of denials due to preexisting conditions which I agree are bunk I don't really see what the problem with affordability is...

I'll stipulate that it could be harder for a family to maintain coverage but that is really just another reason not to have a family size one cannot afford.

There doesn't seem to be any reason a healthy adult can't afford healthcare.

As an example I pay ~58ish$ monthly for Kaiser Signature. My employer pays 75% of the total cost. So $232 for insurance. A bit of a hassle no doubt but still quite doable. At minimum wage sure that would be a deal breaker but does that mean we all pay for insurance for the minimum wage worker or that the wage worker moves themselves up in life?

Many of the people I personally know without insurance have 400+ car notes, bad credit, 1+ children and low skill jobs... What wrong with that picture?

What's wrong with the existing state level healthcare programs for children, the elderly and the disabled???

nicurn001 · Feb 1, 2010

there doesn't seem to be any reason a healthy adult can't afford healthcare.yet when it was advocated in the healthcare reform that this group had to have insurance, many were up in arms about it .
many of the people i personally know without insurance have 400+ car notes, bad credit, 1+ children and low skill jobs... what wrong with that picture?

the uninsured are frowned upon by all are those who are intelligent / wealthy enough to afford insurance , but choose not to be . but you should not tar all uninsured with the same brush , unfortunately there will always be some who genuinely will not be able to get insurance .

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Feb 2, 2010

I live in MA where one can not deny anyone for pre existing conditions. it is wonderful and the right thing to do. I do believe that MA has the highest healthcare cost though.

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Feb 2, 2010

I'm on ehealthinsurance.com right now...
For a 32 year old smoker monthly prices are ranging from 80$-250$ (individual) and 250-630 (family 1 smoker 1 spouse and two children) for plans from Aetna, BCBS, Kaiser, etc.
All with reasonable deductions, limits and copays...
With the exception of denials due to preexisting conditions which I agree are bunk I don't really see what the problem with affordability is...
I'll stipulate that it could be harder for a family to maintain coverage but that is really just another reason not to have a family size one cannot afford.
There doesn't seem to be any reason a healthy adult can't afford healthcare.

The problem is the phrase "healthy adult".

I have not been admitted to the hospital in over 12 years. I have never been pregnant, I have never had an STD, I do not smoke. I have a cocktail maybe once per month. I get vaccinated. I am rarely seriously ill.

I was treated for colon cancer in my late teens. I have had two breast biopsies positive for atypical hyperplasia. My mother and her sisters (all of them) have lost one or both breasts to cancer. None of them have died of the disease - none needed chemo or rad. They are 70s, 8os, 90, and 92. They still drive and live independantly.

I have ulcerative colitis, and have NEVER been hospitalized for it. Last flareup was 13 years ago. I take my remission meds, I watch my diet, get plenty of rest and avoid conditions that contribute to flares of the disease. It isn't easy but I do it.

Last time that I was unemployed, I checked into private insurance. No one will cover, the things that I most need covered. I actually have had people ask me why I am not classed as disabled (because I am not?). I was pretty much told that I was uninsurable. Of course was quite a while back, but still.

What insurance class as a "healthy" adult, is frequently less healthy than I am. But they don't have my history.

tewdles, RN · Feb 2, 2010

and caroladybelle, you are a contributor to society...but unable to obtain affordable health insurance outside of an employer benefit package...

we need reform