Is Health Care a Right? - page 31
Just want to see your opinion (friendly discussion, no flaming, please). Is health care a right that should be enjoyed equally here in the U.S.? If so, how would this be financed without breaking... Read More
Feb 8, '03Originally posted by fiestynurse
Check it out on the HCA Website:
I will take the time to seriously look at that website and consider involvement and a donation/membership. Many states are proposing single payer plans. If it's going to happen I think California will be the place that starts the ball rolling.
Feb 8, '03To use another parallel from my own career, we offer free flu vaccinations to all employees and aim for as close to 100% compliance as we can manage. There are always a number of people who are, as a group, prima donnas and drama queens who refuse the shot.
Feb 8, '03Psstt.... Sally.
I didn't reincarnate that thread. It was posted in April of 2002.
Fiesty brought it back to the forefront probably from a search and realized..."hey, this WAS a great discussion."
Feb 8, '03Originally posted by Susy K
Hey! I also refuse the flu shot.
Feb 8, '03Originally posted by Susy K
I didn't reincarnate that thread.
an side, I was in a hurry when I typed that post and I meant resurrect.
Feb 8, '03Originally posted by Stargazer
Then don't come crying to me when you get sick, MISSY!
Seriously, I have to laugh when my friends get the latest and greatest flu shot, get a trifle ill from it, and then get a full-blown flu when they get the one strain that wasn't in the predicted vaccine...
Ah, another thread.
Feb 8, '03Here are some figures taken from the World Health Organisation web site (which are supplied by the respective countries, before anyone says anything critical about the W.H.O.) -- which make for some very interesting reading -- especially directed at those who are complaining that universal health care will mean them digging into their own pockets.....
BTW, I picked the comparative countries as those which I know have some sort of universal health care, and for no other reason......
Australia has universal heath care (Medicare)
....spends 8.3% of its total GDP on health
....spends a total of $2,213 (in converted currency) on health care per annum per head of population
Canada has universal health care (Medicare??)
....spends 9.1% of its total GDP on health
....spends a total of $2,534 on health care per annum per head of population
United Kingdom has universal health care (NHS)
....spends 7.3% of its total GDP on health
....spends a total of $1,774 on health care per annum per head of population
United States does not have universal health care
....spends 13.0% of its total GDP on health
....spends a total of $4,499 on health care per annum per head of population.
Now, I know what some of you say about the quality of health care in the US, but I would imagine that the quality of care in any of those other three countries is at least as good, and that at any stretch, the health care in the US could not possibly be nearly twice as good as that of Canada, the UK or Australia??
So, would someone like to explain to me again, in simple language that we can all understand, why the introduction of universal health care in the US is likely to cost more than the current system??
Feb 9, '03Incidentally, in the UK, although elective care may take a while due to the chronic underfunding, Managemnt costs are around 4-5% total for the Health Service. You don't need an army of bean counters chasing payments, insurance companies, etc.
Feb 9, '03not only that, the key here is "may take a while" (translate that to DOES take a while. Stand in line, bub!
In OUR country, we are far too used to immediate gratification. We have no patience. We want it NOW. We want the best, we don't want the new guy from med school.
Tell me, what happens when (say, Canada, for instance) the budget runs out, and the annual funds have not yet kicked in?
They close the doors.
Doctors close theirs.
When the government controls the game, you play under their rules. They dictate your wages, your benefits, everything!
Under Hillary (someone back there was touting her) for instance, I DID read her proposals (lot of wind and filler in those pages. Lord do I despise lawyers!) and in her proposals, you had to ask permission to get a new doctor even if you MOVED out of your 'region'.
Personally, I like to choose. When my health plan changed, and my doc was not part of it, I paid out of pocket to keep him. He is very good, and I don't trust just anyone.
Truth of it all is, however, that if the healthcare of these other countries is so great, tell me where the MAJORITY of those out of other countries go for treatment? The flow to Germany is NOTHING compared to the flow to here.
California. Very high tax rate. Wait until you pass your version of universal healthcare. HIGHER tax rate. When is ENOUGH going to be ENOUGH?
At some point, you will take home less than half of what you work for. How long will that last??
It is not an argument to say our healthcare system is in trouble. NOBODY here disputes that! However, the govenment (despite what my liberal friends would like to believe) is NOT your mommy and daddy. If we do not enforce some personal responsibilitys soon, then we are doomed, no matter what 'feel good' solutions we tack on to our profession (and take out of our wallet).
Feb 9, '03Just on the elective surgery thing, some are pointing a finger at waiting lists for elective surgery as a black mark against universal health care. The way I see it, I'd much rather wait a few months for my elective surgery that not get it at all because I couldn't afford insurance!!
Feb 9, '03well, from some personal experience in my own family. I have cousins in England. One of 'em needed cataract surgery, and by the time his name came up, the eye was unsalvageable, however, the other eye now needed surgery, but they would not do it because it was the OTHER eye. Back on a list. He came here and got it done (and I got another chance to say 'hi' before he passed away (3 yrs ago).
I'm expecting this is not the rule, but the exception. But it DID happen, nonetheless.
Feb 9, '03let us also know that in most of these countries (if not all. I don't know about the 'all' part) that population does not treat nearly the number (not even close) of illegal aliens that we do. What happens to them? We just say ' oh no problem, ?'
Feb 9, '03For the record, the 'Give us your sick, your tired, your hungry' does NOT mean that we will 'Heal them, let them rest, and feed them'. It MEANS that we will offer them the OPPORTUNITY, the choice, and the ability to seek the resources to follow their dreams, to feed themselves, etc.
NOWHERE did it EVER say anything about a free hand-out.
Our country is UNMATCHED by ANY in the WORLD when it comes to charity, but there really IS an upper limit to what people will put up with.
Dont >I< too have the right to pursue my happiness, dreams, etc? How do I do it when taxed to the point that I work just to survive?
On the other hand, we could EASILY afford universal healthcare, if we would quit giving out all that money (that never gets paid back) to other countries to help with their suffering.
Give it some thought. Take from that, before you ask me to give up one more red cent than I already have to. Considder this when you also go on about how other countries pay for their system, and how much less it costs other citizens.