Is Health Care a Right?

researchrabbit · Feb 5, 2003

But you also missed the point that our rights are not inalienable, even here. Plus definitions of "rights" change over time.

The sexuality, for example, that we have in our media would not have been seen as "free speech" when the Constitution was framed.

During the McCarthy era, free speech was actively suppressed.

Plus there's the liberty issue -- slavery used to be legal here. How was that "liberty"?

20 years from now, "life" may have been redefined as including wellness -- and healthcare.

cmggriff · Feb 5, 2003

Actually, I think every human being born on the face of the planet (or any planet) has theses in alienable rights. I believe goverments should protect and secure those rights. But governments do not grant those rights. Th US Constitution does not grant rights to people. It defines and and outlines the means of securing those rights.

So I believe the women of muslim nations are also born with those rights. But the people of those and all nations consent to a government that does not protect or even recognize rights for women. Just because a citizenry consents to a government that denies these rights does not mean that these rights do not exist.

Thanks Susy, you're the best. Gary

mother/babyRN, RN · Feb 5, 2003

I think it is a priviledge, personally...I would provide assistance to anyone who needed it, if I could, but in my opinion, it isn't a deserved right status attached to it....

JMP · Feb 5, 2003

MotherBabyRN

How can it be that if a child is born with a serious medical conditon that treatment of the condition is a priviledge? Perhaps it is just the difference in our countries and values of each country that I fail to see it as a priviledge.

As a side note.... as I read these boards, especially this thread it is so apparent to me ( must be to others also) that so many of the debates fall on the left and right of issues. Health care, as an issue, seems to have the right side cheering for people working for their own health care and the working poor, old and sick can fend for themselves..... while the left tries to argue that every one deserves health care as a fundamental right, regardless.

Susy and Kevin appear to lead the right side and from some of the private messages I get, lots disagree, but don't (for reasons I don't quite understand) want to disagree in public. To those people I would say, take heart...BE STRONG. Don't fear standing up for what you REALLY believe in.

It is easy for me to believe in something I already have. I support those who want to be humanitarian in their efforts to ensure proper and descent health care to their families, neighbours and countryman.

SmilingBluEyes · Feb 5, 2003

Originally posted by JMP
MotherBabyRN

Susy and Kevin appear to lead the right side and from some of the private messages I get, lots disagree, but don't (for reasons I don't quite understand) want to disagree in public. To those people I would say, take heart...BE STRONG. Don't fear standing up for what you REALLY believe in.

.

From what I have seen posted by these two poeple, as well as the rest of the board, I say you are preaching to the choir here, almost to the point of redundancy. We all feel strongly one way or the other, and I agree that free discourse is always great as long as it's productive and does not take an insulting slant. And no, not only Canadians hold the beliefs you hold dear....many of here us in the USA (and in many other countries) do, too, to the point of real frustration. It's been an interesting thread, to say the least.:)

JMP · Feb 5, 2003

BLue eyes

You are right in saying that it is not just a Canadian point of view. I was trying to make the point that I already live in an enviroment that supports and fosters universal health care.

I can only imagine your frustration..... I really do feel for those affected and left behind.

researchrabbit · Feb 5, 2003

A lot of people look at this issue as "I don't want to pay for someone else." If you have health insurance, you are already paying for someone else.

I pay $250/month for myself alone. But, I go the the MD twice a year at most. I take one very inexpensive prescription medication. I pay out of pocket for the flu shot that I get each year. Yet (unlike my homeowner's insurance) I get no price break for being a non-smoker, non-drinker, and being fit enough to bike 20 miles twice a week. The $3000 a year that I pay does not BEGIN to reflect the services I use, and have used for the past 10 years. People who can afford health insurance are not always responsible with the services they use, either.

If we didn't have the crazy quilt system that we have, and if there were dialogue on what universal healthcare would cover, betcha we could make it work for less than most of us pay into our for-profit systems now.

JMP, one reason people may not want to argue this is that this is a board that is a social and professional outlet -- and it is a heck of a lot of fun! It's not always fun or comfortable to argue with people you feel are your friends, and this thread has had its heated moments.

JMP · Feb 5, 2003

ReseachRabbit

My point was that rather than send me PM's about how glad "they" are that someone is standing up to the "rightside" of this board... people could do the same. Friends can agree to disagree, state points, make their honest feelings known and still come back together to debate and discuss fun and professional issues. It does not have to take the form of arguments.

SmilingBluEyes · Feb 5, 2003

Originally posted by JMP
ReseachRabbit

My point was that rather than send me PM's about how glad "they" are that someone is standing up to the "rightside" of this board... people could do the same. Friends can agree to disagree, state points, make their honest feelings known and still come back together to debate and discuss fun and professional issues. It does not have to take the form of arguments.

ABSOLUTELY! That is what I was trying to say. And I agree, we are ALREADY PAYING FOR OTHERS......why not do so in a more efficient way in the way of preventive health care for EVERYONE? And I agree, EVERYONE at all capable should HAVE to contribute one way or the other. It seems like a no-brainer to me...you can't just let things go on the way they are. But I don't believe turning our backs on our neediest is the answer...all while getting ready to wage a VERY costly (human and economically) war very soon. I guess I am naive. I just don't get this country and our attitudes sometimes! :confused:

researchrabbit · Feb 5, 2003

Originally posted by JMP
My point was that rather than send me PM's about how glad "they" are that someone is standing up to the "rightside" of this board... people could do the same. Friends can agree to disagree, state points, make their honest feelings known and still come back together to debate and discuss fun and professional issues. It does not have to take the form of arguments.

It was just a guess on my part as to why someone might not take part. :) I agree that friends can agree to disagree, but it makes some anxious and stressed (that was me, 20 years ago; although I'm much braver now, the anxiety is still there).

I know I sometimes have a hard time jumping in when there are so many people on this board who debate so well (I know I don't !).

I hope everyone who feels strongly about the topic will come and play too! The more, the merrier.

SmilingBluEyes · Feb 6, 2003

I think you do WONDERFULLY, Research. Don't short-change your skills. Not everyone is a whiz-bang debater such as a Suzy or Kevin, but each has a valuable point of view to contribute and I read them all. Sometimes I surprise myself and LEARN SOMETHING when I keep my mind open. Especially when what is said is done respectfully and without malice. Your eloquence is MORE than adequate, but it's the respectful way in which you submit your opinions that grabs me the most. That I appreciate. ----IMO.

JMP · Feb 6, 2003

Totally agree with above post! 100 percent.