Importing Foreign-trained nurses - page 6

Importing Foreign-trained Nurses Comparison of Pending Legislation on Nursing Immigration Issues 11/05/01 "The American Nurses Association (ANA) has posted a chart which compares two bills... Read More

  1. by   Peeps Mcarthur
    Posted by shandi,

    " I had an issue with the way you kept refferring to these poor, ignorant minorities " / End quote.




    Shandi,
    On what post did I write this? When did I call the poor "ignorant"......cut and paste the post or don't try to quote someone from memory. It makes you look like your'e making things up to be spiteful.

    You missed the point of my comments because you are bitter about something else and ready to pounce.


    In a nutshell............There should be nursing scholarships.

    Not nursing scholarships if you are a certain color. Not nursing scholarships if you are a single mother. If you are from another country. If you are working class poor.
    If you want(not need) money to attend school for nursing and you can prove academic excellence then you are worthy of publicly funded education. If you are an immigrant, you should also be entitled to education money, but youv'e gotta show me you want to be a citizen and my tax dollars aren't going to fund your career in another country by becoming one.

    Why?

    Because that will transcend all races and income levels, religions...ETC. It will give us the best and brightest of those whom are willing to be counted among the ranks.

    Why don't they just do that and get the brightest and most diverse crossection of the country that government money ever bought?

    Votes...............It won't get them any votes from paticular sectors. They might just end up with less votes

    I'm not going to attack you shandi, but I am going to write things that you might percieve as being attacked. I have to defend what I say and apologize when I realize it's wrong. In both cases, I do it not because my words lacked authority, but rather because I want them to.

    So now I am telling you, if you want to be considered intelligent, sometimes that means you have to admit you were ignorant.
    If you want people to listen to what you have to say, then you must show them that you are listening to what they have to say.

    My advice: Look for the true meaning in these posts on this board before responding. I myself have reacted hastely and had to retract my words, and I did apologize openly with an explanation.
    If you don't your words will also lack authority.

    Brad
  2. by   -jt
    <it seems the hospitals pushing for the bill will have to make some argument.>

    oh they have. They went to Congress and said they 'cant find' nurses, 'there are no nurses available in the US', students 'are not choosing nursing', 'theres a severe nurse shortage' and then they use all the arguments WE have given THEM about the importance of safe staffing & quality care, etc. With that, Congress wanted to see exactly how bad the problem really is so it commissioned a Congressional Research Report on it.

    The General Accounting Office in DC proved that there are 5 times more available nurses in this country who are not working in nursing or at all right now than there are vacant jobs for them. It proves that there is not a shortage in numbers of nurses right now. It is a 'maldistribution' - meaning that there are nurses but they are not going to work in hospitals. The Report was released to Congress in May 2001 & proves that we do have the numbers of nurses needed today - they just dont want the job. Working conditions were cited as the problem.

    The Report blames "poor personnel decisons" for the current situation, not a real shortage of licensed nurses in the country, and suggests that the employers instead look towards repairing those working conditions in their own facilities that are causing this maldistribution of nurses in the first place:

    http://www.ana.org/gova/federal/legis/107/gcrs.htm

    Have the hospitals taken the suggestion? Of course not. They instead added more funds to their lobbying budget to push for their interest & stepped up their effort.
  3. by   -jt
    " Past nursing shortages were largely addressed with federal and local campaigns to improve the image of nursing and recruitment drives, including attracting nurses from other countries. Those strategies, which experts say are again needed, have usually worked in the short-term but have never been lasting........."

    http://detnews.com/specialreports/20...ad/monlead.htm
  4. by   SharonH, RN
    Originally posted by Peeps Mcarthur


    Sharon,
    There's no reason to be snotty. I have only observed an inequality for the last ohhh.....ALL OF MY LIFE!


    I can only express my condolences for the passing of the torch of racial discrimination.
    Yes Brad you have made it clear that you see 'inequality' and 'racial discrimination' but I am sure we probably differ in who is at the receiving end of the discrimination and inequality, so your condolences are not necessary and you certainly aren't getting any sympathy on my end. It's too bad you thought I was "snotty" but I honestly believe you have set the tone with some of your comments about race card players and so on but now you want to cry foul when you receive responses in kind? Oh well........

    I tend not to believe everything I see on the internet, but I do believe anythings possible from those idiots on capitol hill.


    I don't believe everything I see on the internet either that is why I used verifiable and reliable news reports. Besides nothing in those two reports is new; I have read about it in the newspapers and seen news reports on TV. You didn't ? Well I guess you see only what you want to in order to support your view of supposed inequality and discrimination.

    Do you believe there should be a college scholarship based on skin color alone?


    NO.

    Do you believe blacks and whites should be segregated or what?
    I don't understand why you took all the time to post links, and then not discuss the issue. Is your oppinion just as unpopular?
    Just because I didn't do web research or spend the day in a library to compile facts like I was going to court before I ever so carefuly posted, is no reason to slam me. I was only stating the facts as I have experienced them.


    No I do not believe in official segregation. I did not discuss the issue further because really it isn't relevant to the discussion at hand but I saw a chance to enlighten you so I took it.

    How would I know about something that's going on in frigging Missippi? How would I know about Traditional Black Colleges? There's no White Scholarship at the college I go to and I have never seen or heard of one in any place I have ever lived. I have visited hundreds of websites about scholarships and I subscibe to several news services...............Still, I have never heard of such a thing.


    Well that's odd because all I did was type White students at Black colleges and I got dozens of links. It didn't take hours of research or preparation. But you know Brad, maybe if you looked outside of your little world then maybe you might realize that things are not as one-sided as you are determined to believe.

    Why are you holding me accoutable for it?
    I'm not. But perhaps you shouldn't make statements of fact when the truth is that you don't know the whole story. Just like that little story about the student who you perceive as getting some special treatment based on the color of her skin and fears by the professor that any rebuke would result in a claim of racism. That is such crap. If that professor is truly afraid to deal a student because of that, then he/she is a FOOL and is probably not qualified to teach anyway. But perhaps, just perhaps you don't know the whole story. And that is my point.




    Anyway,

    I think getting a scholarship based on your skin color alone is disgusting.
    Don't you?

    It's unfortunate but that is what this society has spawned. At any rate, it really is NOT a burning issue in my life.


    That's all. Happy Thanksgiving.
  5. by   SharonH, RN
    jt, I apologize because this exchange between Brad and myself has veered way off the subject.
  6. by   Peeps Mcarthur
    Sharon,
    I went to the Alcorn State University web site. There is no scholarship for white students. There is one for non-black students though. That's not really the one your citing as an argument is it?
    I also typed "White students at black colleges" and really got nothing. I use the Exite web browser.
    Which one did you use to look it up?

    I did however type in "diversity scholarships" as Alcorn State titled them, and got plenty of results. No scholarships for "white students only" in the whole bunch.

    Now, there's some "facts", but do I have ALL the information? No.
    Have I formed an oppinion?
    Unless you know of some authority on an analysis of white students at traditionaly black colleges that are enrolled on scholarship vs total white student enrollment vs black student enrollment, then I would say you pretty much just relied on what a reporter wrote on a website because I can't find it yet. If you can reference it without spitting poison at me, I would like to see it. Really.

    You missed my original point because you were too busy cutting and pasting every word I wrote.

    I was commenting on the disparities of non-poor, non-ethnicity scholarships in relation to thier impact , or lack of, to balance the importation and compensation of yet, more poor ethnicities into an already overflowing taxpayer financed orgy of white-guilt. It is also that mechanism that feeds votes, and so goes the political focus.

    So then it is relevant.

    Brad
  7. by   CriticalCareOnc
    I believe all of our family members benefit from what we earn from our daily toils. so what's the big deal that foreign trained nurses are pre occupied sending money to their families back home? where else would they send it? it is not a fair generalization that foreign trained nurses are content of low wages and just accept it as manna from heaven. if that is the case, i would not see scores of foreign trained nurses joining labor unions. it shows of their discontent as well with current labor conditions. and forgn trnd nurses would not bother to get evaluated for salary increases, get certifications to get better pay rates, and specialize to further the cause of nursing and also to get better pay rates. foreign nurses are not money grubbing nurses. the sole discontent of non foreign trained nurses just explains money is important to everyone to get around. we should all come together as nurses, whatever ethnic background or manner of going here to the US and get our minds together to get better working conditions. educating ourselves is the best way to solve the problem. it's not about closing the doors of America because it is with this open door that America came into being. And to all those who say that importing foreign trained nurses is not the solution, then maybe we would risk the closing down of the transplant unit, icu, oncology, and medical surgical units of the hospital where i work because they are manned by foreign trained nurses and whos nurse managers are foreign trained as well. CNA has made a big difference in our working conditions. Proof that education and speaking up is the true solution to this proble. Kaiser Southern California is largely manned by foreign trained nurses. SEIU (Labor Union)in Los Angeles has afforded better working conditions for Kaiser employees. It is our united voice as nurses of the community that matters. I hope we would be shouting for the cause and not against each other.

    p/s. i have a lot of korean and japanese patients who only speak their language. i am thankful to work with very competent and output driven korean nurses. they are better translators than the AT&T translators. they are nurses in the first place.
  8. by   -jt
    Excuse me for jumping in here but the problem is not with the foreign trained nurses.

    The problem is with the employers recruiting them to avoid the fact that US nurses wont take the jobs because of current working conditions.

    The problem is that employers want to use recruitment of foreign nurses in order to avoid having to fix those conditions.

    If they can bring in enough foreigners who are obligated to work their visa, they wont need those of us who are demanding improvements be made before we come back to work - & then wont have to make the improvements.

    Its not the foreign trained nurses who are causing the problem. Its the employers who dont have their priorities in order
    ie:
    Putting a million $$ to a budget for overseas recruiting while at the same time saying they "cant afford" to purchase lifting equipment, hire ancillary staff for non-nursing functions, eliminate mandatory OT, increase nursing salaries, compensate for education, experience, specialty certification, and longevity, improve benefits/pensions, add seats to their nursing programs, etc. etc etc.

    PS

    My daughter is looking at colleges now. As far as scholarships go, I have seen some offered only for students of African descent, some offered only to students of Hispanic background, some offered only to inner city, minority students, and some offered to anyone with incomes that dont meet certain levels - regardless of race or ethnicity. And Ive even seen one for students who live on farms. Also, The Sons of Italy offers one only for students of Italian descent. The Hibernians only for students of Irish hertiage. The Polaski Society only for students of Polish background. And the list goes on. Any group can decide who it wants to offer scholarships to. There are plenty of scholarships that dont say they are for white only but if they say "Italian-heritage only" or "Irish-heritage Only" the chances are pretty high that those students are Caucasians. So if the NAACP wants to offer a scholarship to "African-heritage only", whats the problem?
    Students can apply for the any that fit them.
  9. by   OC_An Khe
    Let's simplify this discusion a little.

    Will the importation of non US RNs help solve the current and projected RN shortage? I doubt that enough RN can be recruited to relocate to the USA to solve this problem.
    Does the importation of non US RNs do anything to treat and eliminate the root causes of the current and projected shortage? It doesn't address the root causes at all and in fact might exacerbate the causes for the projected shortage.
    To get back to -jt"s original postings, we all need to contact our Federal Legislaters in regards to the previously mentioned bills on this thread and others.
    I wonder how many took the time to do that? Maybe we should poll the posters. It takes less time to contact all three of your Federal office holders then to read the postings on this thread.
  10. by   Larry
    That problem is the same one we are facing in the UK. The short-term goal of our government is the importation of foreign nurses.

    The present uk nurses who are in training will not for 25 years reach the level of nurses required.

    The present government are expected to raise taxes to improve the NHS.
  11. by   tchachakis@aol.com
    go look at the post for cleveland oh hospital in the first set of posts thats what the hosps are tryin to do.....
  12. by   -jt
    <we all need to contact our Federal Legislators in regards to the previously mentioned bills on this thread and others.
    I wonder how many took the time to do that?>

    we all need to contact our Federal Legislators in regards to the previously mentioned bills on this thread and others.


    yup. Thanks for reminding us what the topic was about. Making our elected officials work for us on these matters. So are mine & yours the only ones who got an earful from nurses on this?
  13. by   Grant Morgan
    To all the nurses in the U.S. I am a nurse from South Africa and I would like to know what are the terrible working conditions that you are faced with....just to see if we have the same problems. Often there have been times that I've worked in a state hospital where there are 4 nurses to 56 patients ( 1 RN, 2 Staff Nurses, & 1 Enrolled Nurse auxilliary).....very common practice this side.

    From what I have read, it seems to me that many of the foreign nurses that you work with, seem to have nothing but good words. I have, in fact, worked with a few American nurses in my country and it seems to me that you are very technologically advanced, but the level of nursing skills and theoretical knowledge appears below par of the final year nursing student in South Africa. I have worked aboard the worlds first Health Care Train, which brings primary health care to the people of rural South Africa, I teach & supervise final year nursing students from most of the nursing institutions in S.A. and I have measured them up together.

    There are many questions I would like to pose to nurses from the U.S.

    1. What are your primary complaints about nursing in the U.S.?
    2. What are your impressions of foreign nurses? Are the standards lower than those of Americans?
    3. What reasons do you think, these nurses have left their families and home country, to work in the U.S.

    That last question..... my answer is to improve their social well-being. In South Africa one dollar is th equivelent to 10 South African rands....if a nurse earns $ 1000 per month in the U.S. ,
    R10 000 is a lot of money to feed the family and send the children off to a very good school, this side. Considering the fact that the average person earns about R 3 500 per month.

    Please, Shandi, the next time you try to judge people who are from a poorer background than you are....try to see it from their point of view !!!!!! (Basic Sociology!!!!!!!)

    Yours Sincerely

    Grant Morgan

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