Importing Foreign-trained nurses

jmspeach · Nov 16, 2001

I am in now way trying to be rude. But I don't agree with foreign nurses being hired to come here and practice in this country. If they want to be here, they should live here, go to school here and committ their life to the USA. We are way to leaniant on immigrants comming into this country, look at Sept. 11th. We trusted these people to come here and learn here and then what did they do. Yes I think if people want to be nurses here, great, then come here learn here, pay for things like we have to!!! Funding by the USA is dumb and irresponsible on our part. We need to make it better for the nurses we already have, who SPEAK our language and know our ways.

Why is it, we are willing to help these people, but we can't even make it better for the people who are already here?????? Its very sad!

This is just my opinion, so if you don't like it, forget what I said. I respect what others think, thats your right, so respect mine.

thisnurse · Nov 16, 2001

jt...yes you have the answers. so do the hospitals and thats what really pisses me off. it is simple so why sidestep around all that?

this has nothing to do with the foreign nurses being good or bad. i dont think its fair to say either way. im sure some are good and some are bad. just like here.

we are undermining our own people, our own culture.

its not going to be easy for these imported nurses. i remember how hard it was for me starting out. i had to pass the "initiation". i shed many a tear over the way i was treated. i got to the point where i didnt even want to go to work any more.

these are nurses who are going to come into a situation they are unprepared for. i doubt very much the hospitals are going to prepare them for what they are up against. they are going to paint a very pretty picture.

and our nurses are not going to be very friendly or open to these nurses. for some reason our profession is not very kind to our new nurses. these foreign nurses are going to have to deal with that attitude PLUS feelings about the whole importation policy. i cant help but feel sorry for them. i dont think they know what they are getting into.

the recruiter isnt going to tell them they are walking into a situation that already has problems. they arent going to say "we are hiring you because you will work cheaper than the american nurses and you will eat more crap"

they are telling them how great its going to be and that we will welcome them with open arms. they are telling them how great it is to live here and how much money they will make.

i know years ago i checked into nursing in saudi (thank god i didnt do that). how could it be bad

...ALL your expenses are paid. and NO TAXES. can you imagine how much money you would be able to save? sounded great but then i found out that i would have to comply with their culture. knowing myself as i do, i knew id get there, stay a week or two then be sorry, VERY sorry.

i dunno....i cant help but feel sorry for these nurses. they are being used and they dont even know it.

fergus51 · Nov 16, 2001

It should be made clear that immigrants are a large and important part of the country and they pay taxes as well. I am a Canadian and moved to the US and got American citizenship and now live back in Canada. I never got anything free or had any fabulous programs from the US gov't that payed me anything. If anyone should be annoyed about nurses moving to the US (from Canada at least), it's Canadians. Their taxes supplemented my education so that I could become a nurse and then leave and work and pay taxes in another country. Obviously taxes fund a lot of crap I don't agree with, but I am not opposed to foreign nurses coming here to work. I don't know any foreign nurses in my unit who were recipients of gov't money either.

I know immigration is a bit of a scapegoat sometimes, but let's be honest, immigrants wouldn't be keeping wages down if nurses were organized. I am now in a provincial union and every nurse who works in the province has to be a member. Foreign nurses are not allowed to be payed less or worked to death so I don't see them as a threat at all. Simple.

Larry · Nov 16, 2001

I find nurses from the Philippines to be hardworking. I agree that they are not assertive enough - indeed their culture is different. Certainly I heard that some theatre nurses (OR) were not keen on hiring them because they were encouraging the doctors to lord themselves.

I used to run nursing homes and I would certainly have preferred to hire filipinas because of their work.

The US is big country and should absorb more immigrants. Many Americans that I've met are cosmopolitan and are not as reserved as some British are.

You shouldn't just talk about wages but be open to encouraging as we do internationalism. Foreigners can be integrated and I believe nursing is a good medium for education and goodwill.

However if you feel that you cannot breathe in US - then come to Britain (51st State) with General Blair and Barbara Malone !

Nurses coming to the UK generally have to start at the bottom of the ladder and have to pass an adaptation training course regulated by the UKCC http://www.ukcc.org.uk/index.html Generally after the adaptation training of three to six months nurses are paid the same as UK nurse starters.

I really think that the UK should be more attractive to foreign nurses because we are a multi-ethnic society and there is not such a difference between rich and poor as in US.

To read about nursing opportunities in UK visit

http://www.doh.gov.uk/international-nurse/

http://www.nursingtimes.net/

Peeps Mcarthur · Nov 17, 2001

Larry,

I didn't see the information I need. Maybe you can give me a bit of information about scholarships, grants, and other financial considerations for international students.

Regards,

Brad

Columbia, MD

Larry · Nov 17, 2001

There is a website detailing more advice and how to apply direct to hospitals - but for anyone contemplating coming to UK they must first register their qualifications with UKCC.

I am not in recruitment and I don't have time to deal further with this.

I suggest that iinterested parties can also look in http://www.rcn.org.uk/home/home.html and

http://www.healthprofessionals.com/

http://www.philemb.demon.co.uk/July2001/BAHAYKUBO.htm

Peeps Mcarthur · Nov 17, 2001

Larry,

Thank you. I appreciate your post.:)

reggiedoc · Nov 17, 2001

Hello everyone,

My name is Reggie. I find the topics here very interesting and informative as well. I appreciate each and everyone's input regarding the importation of foreign nurses. Being a nurse from the Philippines, this topic is of great interest to me. Before I delve into that complex phenomenon, I would like to share with you a historical perspective regarding America's role in the perpetuation of Americanized nursing in the Philippines and how these dynamics continue to affect the cyclical nursing shortages the U.S. has seen since the post-World War 2 era. Please click on this link below to find out more:

Hitting Critical Mass

Very sincerely,

Reggie

reggiedoc · Nov 17, 2001

As a Filipino nurse recruited at the tailend of the last US nursing shortage of the 20th century, I believe foreign nursing recruitment is an alternative but should not be relied upon as the ultimate fix. US nursing has always been driven by multifarious forces and therefore no single solution appears to suffice. I agree with the posts here about looking at the root causes of these shortages and making concerted efforts as nurse professionals regardless of race or background. I echo the convictions of the leadership of PNA-America (Philippine Nurses Association of America) through its Executive Director, Ampy de la Paz as it appeared in the Nursing Spectrum, May 4, 2001 edition. Excerpt as follows:

"While foreign nurse recruitment is an immediate fix," de la Paz says, "we need to focus on long-term solutions to the nursing shortage: appropriating funds for nursing education, offering competitive compensation for nursing faculty members, eliminating salary compression of nurses so that their earning capacity is competitive with the salaries that other professions offer, and enhancing the image of the nursing profession in order to attract the younger generation to pursue nursing as a career."

Very sincerely,

Reggie

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Nov 17, 2001

Reggie:

Welcome aboard. Your link most informative. Hope to hear from you again....it can be addictive here. Debate is always good especially when first hand info shared.

-jt · Nov 18, 2001

Thanks Reggie. PNA echos the message being sent by ANA and others.

Btw, did you know that Lolitas Compas, past president of the PNA, has just been elected president of the NY State Nurses Assoc?

Larry · Nov 18, 2001

A very long document Reggie that I skimmed. An interested history of the rise of nursing in the Philippines and its exportation to USA. Not so much though on 1965-present, but probably more of same. What was this thesis part of a post-doctoral submission ?

From a purely recruitment paradigm I found filipino/as more hardworking than other foreigners and thus a wished for agenda when dealing with nurse shortages.

In the UK we have a recurring 20-30% shortage of nurses. Through recent drives in recruiting foreign nurses from Spain, South Africa and other countries the NHS National Health Service is claiming a 17.5% shortage but that is debatable.

Certainly the recruitment of foreign nurses is an ethical issue and is now considered unethical in recruiting nurses from countries in Africa, where their own nursing workforce is depleted.

In the short-term the recruitment of foreign-trained nurses fills the gap, but in the long-term higher pay and better working conditions can improve the workforce by liking it to a worthwhile job that would encourage home-born graduates to seek as a career.

The importation of foreigners to the UK - whilst increasing the retention of nurses, can work counter-productive by increasing social spending on the burden to the state of their spouses and dependants.

The UK is becoming a multi-ethnic society, which is in part good sharing our cultural heritage and in part bad. Certain immigrants/asylum seekers are not integrating within the society and preferring to stay in their paradigm. As such we have some people preferring their own language than the English language, and not learning English. We have some groups of people wishing to turn our country into their own paradigm.

However this has very little to do with the rise of filipina nurses into the UK.