I am watching Michael Moore's "Sicko" for the first time....

[Valerie Salva]

And I am just blown away. I am incredulous.

I have felt for a while that we should have universal health care here in the US, but I didn't know things were this bad. We really should be ashamed that GTMO Bay prisoners get free (and very good quality, from the looks of it) health care and 9/11 rescue workers are suffering from 9/11 related health conditions and have no coverage.

And hospitals removing their names from the pt bracelets of ill, unisured pts, and having cabs drop them on Skid Row?

And insurance company physicians admitting that they know they caused the death of pts by denying claims in order to save the ins company money?

What is the matter with us that our health care system is ranked #37 among industrialized nations?

To me, this is not about politics, not about personal responsibility, it's not about cost- it's just about what is right and what is wrong.

I know the Canadian and other universal health care systems have their problems, but they are not run on a foundation of greed and denial of care as ours is.

I am very fortunate that I have good health insurance, but this could change at any time. I am willing to pay more taxes so that all US citizens can get free or low-cost health care that is not connected with a job, and can move with the citizen and cover them wherever they are and whatever their circumstances are.

Are you?

What do you think?

[leadesign]

This is exactly why there needs to be an UHC. Bean counters and laypeople in the insurance companies are deciding what care can be given to you and are over-riding what your Doctor's treatment for you will be. Didn't you even see the movie Sicko? It addresses the fact that insurance companies are withholding reimbursement for your treatment and are thereby determining your treatment. And Gee why should they be liable for anything? Are you liable for your job? Why should the insurance companies liability be any different?

Here's a movie you may like, it's called Logan's Run. Or better yet how about a nice Eugenics program. Ever read A Brave New World or see the movie Gattaca? Maybe those are better solutions in the eyes of insurance companies.

If someone's not open minded enough to watch a docu-movie that is related to their line of work, what kind of assessment skills does that person possess? They are too close minded to see. The movie does not say anything derogatory about healthcare workers.

Anyway we apparently have forgotten - 'Art is a lie that tells the truth.' (Picasso)

[Honnête et Sérieux]

This is exactly why there needs to be an UHC. Bean counters and laypeople in the insurance companies are deciding what care can be given to you and are over-riding what your Doctor's treatment for you will be.

A socialized system doesn't change that. It's just in a socialized system, the beancounters are now gov't employees who also want to use the money to study mosquito farts and get post offices named after them.

Didn't you even see the movie Sicko? It addresses the fact that insurance companies are withholding reimbursement for your treatment and are thereby determining your treatment. And Gee why should they be liable for anything? Are you liable for your job? Why should the insurance companies liability be any different?

The current gov't payor system we use in the US does the very same thing...sigh...I can almost type that with my eyes closed now.

Here's a movie you may like, it's called Logan's Run. Or better yet how about a nice Eugenics program. Ever read A Brave New World or see the movie Gattaca? Maybe those are better solutions in the eyes of insurance companies.

I'm not following you; those movies reflected GOVERNMENT control of everything. If anything, UHC advocates lean TOWARD the Brave New World/futuristic/Gattacian model.

If someone's not open minded enough to watch a docu-movie that is related to their line of work, what kind of assessment skills does that person possess? They are too close minded to see. The movie does not say anything derogatory about healthcare workers.

Anyway we apparently have forgotten - 'Art is a lie that tells the truth.' (Picasso)

What is a "docu-movie?" Sicko is not a documentary, and unless you watched Dead Meat, I hardly think you can accuse someone else of being 'close minded.' Michael Moore admits that the criticisms of his film are valid.

And what his movie does is misrepresent the conditions of the healthcare system in Cuba and other countries.

And God help us when we resort to using "art" to make decisions about medicine. I want the surgeon who operates on me to be thinking about the science of what he is doing, and not what Picasso inspires him to do with the scalpel.

[leadesign]

You've totally missed the point by taking what I've said literally.

Have you never heard of docudrama? I can't be the first person to use documovie, Google it.

Art uses different materials or 'media' to represent the view of the artist or author etc.

If you worked with a plastic surgeon or any surgeon you can't say they never use their own artistic interpretation in technique or execution of a procedure.

The movie references chosen were to illustrate a point that insurance companies would rather only service perfect specimens who don't need much in the way of health care. And that it would be be helpful since they only live until they were 30-35yrs old before 'rejuvenation' (Logan's Run)

In a Brave New World 'The year of our Ford' was actually in reference to the corporate/consumerism based society. Which is kind of what these corporate giants promote. Also the use of withholding oxygen and other nutrients from selected babies while they were developing to create different class levels also melds well with insurance corporations practices of with holding care...

[LaughingRN]

A socialized system doesn't change that. It's just in a socialized system, the beancounters are now gov't employees who also want to use the money to study mosquito farts and get post offices named after them.

The current gov't payor system we use in the US does the very same thing...sigh...I can almost type that with my eyes closed now.

I want to challenge you....show me proof that the Canadian UHC system denies medical care or limits a person to a certain treatment as opposed to the newer more expensive treatment (for example). I want you to show me in our media, in your media, research, websites etc. I don't even care if they are from anecdotal type sources. It is hard to sit here and watch you repeatedly type the same thing over and over with no proof. It's even harder to understand what you are talking about, since I am Canadian and I have seen no evidence of the above.

Show me the angry Canadians (related to this topic!).

I can Google "US insurance companies denying care" and it fills page after page of hits. Show me how the Canadian system is the same.

Show me the links...

[loriangel14, RN]

I want to challenge you....show me proof that the Canadian UHC system denies medical care or limits a person to a certain treatment as opposed to the newer more expensive treatment (for example). I want you to show me in our media, in your media, research, websites etc. I don't even care if they are from anecdotal type sources. It is hard to sit here and watch you repeatedly type the same thing over and over with no proof. It's even harder to understand what you are talking about, since I am Canadian and I have seen no evidence of the above.

Thank you. My thoughts exactly.For an American she seems to think she knows our system better than us.

[iteachob, MSN, RN]

A URL for you...

http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_3_canadian_healthcare.html

One of 178,000,000 hits on Google. Written by a Canadian, by the way.

[Atheos]

A URL for you...

http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_3_canadian_healthcare.html

One of 178,000,000 hits on Google. Written by a Canadian, by the way.

That's not proof. That's a story written on a blog. How do you KNOW the person is Canadian.

Where is the RESEARCH???

[iteachob, MSN, RN]

That's not proof. That's a story written on a blog. How do you KNOW the person is Canadian.

Where is the RESEARCH???

Hey....the challenger asked for anything....."anecdotal even". Did you even read it? My you are fast, if I do say so.

I know the challenge wasn't for me, but I thought, seriously, how hard could this be? 178,000,000 hits. I'd say there is some proof there, or at least a few (million, probably) disgruntled Canadians.

[LaughingRN]

I read the first paragraph. The story has no relevance since the Canadian was receiving treatment outside of Canada which is not included in our UHC.

I was more or less looking at a Canadian being denied Canadian available care.

good start though.

[Atheos]

I imagine if I gave everyone on Allnurses a million dollars SOMEONE would be disgruntled because they had to pay taxes or it wasn't enough or it wasn't in a certain denomination.

The existence of whining does not necessarily indicate a problem.

[iteachob, MSN, RN]

I read the first paragraph. The story has no relevance since the Canadian was receiving treatment outside of Canada which is not included in our UHC.

I was more or less looking at a Canadian being denied Canadian available care.

good start though.

Uh huh! They had to get treatment in the United States BECAUSE they were told (in Canada) that the (superior) drug wasn't approved in Canada (I wonder why....). Well, it was in the USA.....hence the treatment here.

[LaughingRN]

That blurs the point of the conversation doesn't it.

It's as valid as me saying your system isn't good because someone went south to Mexico get drugs, have cosmetic surgery etc, and then complaining when it wasn't covered by their insurance.

The FDA isn't god. They've approved drugs that shouldn't have been approved and became used by many.

The Canadian government may not have approved that particular drug simply because it hasn't been proven to be effective. We have chemotherapy here, and it isn't cheap. She could have accessed any proven treatment....

If there were so many hits, why was one picked that was borderline applicable?