Healthcare is NOT a basic human right. - page 28

by Asystole RN 50,986 Views | 622 Comments

If one were to read the Constitution one would realize that the Constitution does not grant anyone freedoms, liberties, or rights. The Constitution only protects freedoms, liberties, and rights from transgressions on part of the... Read More


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    Quote from toekneejo
    In addition, how humanitarian is it to acknowledge and encourage underpayment to a group of people? I also believe that it may take awhile however if the jobs that are being filled by non-residents were to be vacated due to them going home Americans who are not counted in the unemployment figures ( due to they have stopped looking), would fill them thus putting more Americans to work.
    And guess how much you're going to be paying for chicken. And vegetables. Sure, we can employee "Americans" to pick our fields, but since they work at about a 1/3 to 1/2 as fast as the guys that were doing it, We'll be paying that much more for our vegetables. Imagine how much beef is going to cost now that there are people reporting their accidents in the slaughterhouses to OSHA instead of quietly taking their now single-armed spanish speaking body home. Got to pay for a new arm if you can't threaten them with INS so they'll keep quiet and disappear.

    Quote from Jeweles26
    Right, and the whole argument that illegal immigrants do jobs that Americans wouldnt do. That is preposterous. Maybe they dont want to do them at the current salaries. But if you have no other options, you increase salary to minimum wage. And lets remember America is currently experiencing a recession with skyhigh unemployment rates. I think assuming that Americans wouldnt do the work is silly. First, we wont know until we try. Second, when you are desperate to feed your family and unemployed, you take what you can get (unless of course the government throws out a bunch of handouts so you dont have to work).
    It really is preposterous, and I have a solution. A Canadian could go back to where they came from and open up that nursing job for one of our many out of work nurses here. I'm sure they'd rather work instead of getting a bunch of government handouts. But as long as we allow foreign nurses into this country, we're stuck putting unemployed nurses on welfare and food stamps, and WIC and all sorts of government handouts. There's a border that I can get behind shutting down. Canadians aren't offering low cost labor like people from the southern border offer. So Canadians are ONLY taking away jobs that Americans do want to fill. Like the many nursing graduates and experienced nurses looking for work.
    If only we could find one Canadian that took a nursing job in the U.S.A. That's one nursing job that could then be opened up to a true born in the good ol' U.S.ofA. Where to look? WHERE TO LOOK????
    Fiona59 and JMBnurse like this.
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    And don't fret. I'm coming after Bieber and the Titanic soundtrack lady next! Just watch any signing competition, sooooo many americans that want the jobs those Canadians have.

    I figure once we get that border conquered, we can then start working on the southern border. There's a reason for building a north wall first. We'll need cheap labor for that. So we can't wall off the south before we get the walls in place.

    Any suggestions on how high the walls should be? And how fast should I hit the border a few times to bring down some Canadian beer?
    I promise not to bring a foreign kid who might lose his visa across the border with me.
    JMBnurse, malamud69, and rubato like this.
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    This is to 37 degrees -

    No it is not irrelevant, whether you are or in your case NOT a nurse. This is a site and a thread for NURSES. You are clearly not one.

    Did anyone else just hear that? It was 37 degrees' credibility going down the drain....

    We deal with the sick, the injured, the young, the dieing, 24/7... What do you do? Haunt internet chat boards attempting to prove something which has already been debunked time and time again? All in the name of "research"?

    Take your propaganda somewhere else comrade. It's not welcome here in the land of the free, and home of the brave!
  4. 0
    "Do you deny saying that? What percentage of the uninsured do you think are the working poor, who can't qualify for Medicaid? As soon as you have a McJob, you're on your own."

    First of all, no. I do not deny saying I've seen people in the ED with iPhones, manicured hairs, nails, or designer clothes, with a medical card. If you poll the entire nation of ED nurses, they would unanimously agree with that. Does that make me, and every other ED nurse in the country a bigot? No. Does it make you look like desperate fool trying to cling to whatever fringe element of legitimacy you may have left? Yes.

    As for the whole McJob comment, who did your god king Obama pardon from providing health insurance to it's employees? Well that would be your McJob employers, Wal-Mart, and McDonalds.

    Please, if you're going to try to make a case for socialized medicine, at least have a background in the field to start, then get your facts straight.
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    "According to your religion, unregulated enterprise will always do the best things for the citizenry what's best for GM is best for the country. Their fiduciary responsibility, as private corporations, is to their shareholders. That is it. If they can increase their profits by poisoning a stream with tailings, destroying a towns water supply, then that is their responsibility. (If the town then has to truck in bottled water, isn't the town effectively subsidizing the offending company? Isn't that socialism?)

    I trust you are familiar with the tragedy of the commons. Are you?

    * The periodic runs on banks before FDIC insurance was a problem."

    So simple. Your first point is a logical fallacy. Well played though, well played. First of all you need to go back into history and discover the root cause of the "bank runs". It was the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913. Much of why the Great Depression happened was because of fractional reserve banking. The banks lent out more money than they had on deposit. So it's only natural that these "bank runs" weren't really bank runs at all, rather, depositors trying to withdrawal their money. The only problem is... WHOOPS! The banks, thinking the Federal Reserve had them covered, already lent out their money, and didn't have anything to pay them with.... UH OH! Then the great progressive FDR went ahead and pardoned the banks for their misdeads, and confiscated the citizens gold...

    Please, tell me more about how the government is for the common people!
    mc3 and lindarn like this.
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    And suddenly I remembered my Charlemagne... "Let my armies be the rocks and the trees, and the birds in the sky."

    37 Degrees - You make no intelligible points whatsoever. I will refrain from dedicating anymore time to debunking your nonsense which has already proven a failure numerous times over in the last century. Debating you factually and intellectually, is like arguing with a drunk or an addict. No matter how many times you prove them wrong, they still won't accept it.

    You want universal health care and all it's glories? You got it with the ACA, along with the downfall of our Republic (yes the United States is a Republic, not a democracy). Time will show all. Enjoy your irrational and mismanaged care!

    I bid you "a dieu" my incompetent, non health-care working friend!
    toekneejo likes this.
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    Quote from RockinChick66
    Ok. Let me say this.....I need insurance and I believe I have the right to have it! If members of congress have the right to all that great health insurance they get, than why shouldn't I have that same right? Are they better than me?
    I can understand everyone wanting healthcare and I can even understand them wanting it without having to pay for it. However, I believe in personal responsiblility and believe that one of my inalienable rights is to get through this life (as an American), without the dependancy of government entitlements. Please do not misconstrue entitlements with infrastucture and protection from foreign and domestic enemies along with other duties of of the FED. I am not trying to be hard-nosed however I do want to continue the liberties that have been sought after and fought for by Americans. As far as ACA being signed, sealed, and delivered, because it went to the supreme court- first it was a split decision with the deciding factor being chosen by the senior. In addition, I am not opposed to Massechutes healthcare, in America the states are where that action is suppose to take place. If New York or any other individual state wishes to take on healthcare as a unit and their constituants agree, that would not frustrate me as much as a mandate in which the FED is infringing on my right to self responsibility. In regards to congress having insurance, as long as they are in office, I don't have a problem with it, however NOT lifetime. With that said I feel the same way about recipients (benefactors) of an entitlement voting themselves other people's income regardless if they are a citizen or a member of congress!! I wanted to get into the immigration but I now believe that is diverting too far from the issue I will save it for a different post. Liberty for all.
    Last edit by toekneejo on Oct 2, '12 : Reason: Typos
    realmaninuniform likes this.
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    If we allow ACA to stand; the tax system will need to be overhauled and raised to where the bulk of my income is spent on taxes and then the government will dole out my allotments. I would be ok with a system where the people who would like to participate in it, either as a recipient or as a benefactor/recipient, were allowed to sign up for the deductions and then are eligible for the benefits. However, I believe those of us that are against it fundamentally should not be forced into accepting/using it. However, if that were to be allowed, the system would not have enough revenue, which is another reason I am against it. I don't know how to explain it, but I was raised to stand on your own two feet and to help your neighbor who can't. If the government is involved, it leaves everyone with such a small % of their income, to where there is not enough income remaining to give out of the kindness of your heart to those in need. I believe in Americans, I believe we will do the right thing; if left to our own choices. Just look at recent history and the outpouring of donations. How many people saw the female bus monitor being bullied? Americans rallied and she was rewarded with close to a million dollars within a couple of days!!! Katrina? Joplin? Oversea tragedies? We are a caring people but we do not want the government to dictate who, when, and how much with our individual income. Earlier in this post it was suggested that Americans had "a thread of independant pioneer blood still running thru their veins however the world has changed and in an URBAN society..." I wish to dispute this notion. First I do not live in an urban area (and that is specifically by choice) Yes there is more available and more assistance for all. I don't want either. Second, the United "States" of America are 50 unique individual states (In Europe a country is a state). That would be like all of Europe getting together and creating a healthcare for all of Europe. (How's the Euro's working for them?) Like I said in my earlier post if any municipality or state wishes to set something up for their people it is their decision. However, it is stepping way out of bounds for all 50 states to be required to surrender to the same set of statutes regardless of their circumstances.


    I believe that personal responsiblity is the utmost security I can have. I will never feel secure leaving my healthcare to a government that has, in my opinion, failed basically all social programs they have tried to conquer. One last statement, Michelle Obama stated "I can finally be proud of America" in 2008. Now I am getting close to saying that "I am at risk of losing my pride in America, if Americans choose to give up their personal responsibility for the pseudo-security of government entitlements!"
    Last edit by toekneejo on Oct 2, '12
    mc3 likes this.
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    Quote from Jeweles26
    Ok, well for one, this conversation isnt about illegal immigration. Second, the fact that we were COLONISTS at one point, not illegal immigrants, is besides the point. There was no concept of citizenship among Native Americans, no concept of land ownership. And do you want to know how we define this crazy thing called illegal or legal citizens? Its simple. Either a birth certificate saying you were born here, or naturalization documents, or any legal document from USCIS saying you are legally allowed to be here and work. If you want to talk about how in this day and age we take care of others, you should also realize that in this day and age, you need to LEGALLY immigrate. Because while citizenship to a certain land might be a social construct, so is healthcare for all.
    As for the slaughter of Natives. Yes, there was slaughter. It went both ways. But how many conquering people do you know who give the conquered land, benefits, tax exemptions, and apologize every chance they get?
    And to your hilarious comment about how we would test to see who is a real American or not, or who is allowed to be here, please refer to my above explanations. If you are a citizen, or have a work visa, or are a permanent resident, then you dont have to leave. Simple.
    Are you "really" saying that the system we have in place...reservations..is such a great thing? Are you really saying that? If so, you need to take a long look at what you are supporting before you tout it as a nice thing with apologies etc...I imagine you think "apologizing every chance we get" just allows for the selective forgetting of what this country was truly founded on...again people love to selectively forget that the basic foundations are in fact corrupt. And yes...these "ideals" like health care and citizenship are "constructs"- that is the point... humans are dynamic -as well as the world/the planet..can we not see beyond our increasingly close minded and pre-conventional thought? Basing your argument...as you try to debunk mine...on whether or not the teacher is out of the room has little if any backbone...it is time to look beyond. I support many of the people throughout this post that have been other places besides the US..they at least have some vision.
    Fiona59 likes this.
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    Quote from realmaninuniform
    This is to 37 degrees -

    No it is not irrelevant, whether you are or in your case NOT a nurse. This is a site and a thread for NURSES. You are clearly not one.

    Did anyone else just hear that? It was 37 degrees' credibility going down the drain....

    We deal with the sick, the injured, the young, the dieing, 24/7... What do you do? Haunt internet chat boards attempting to prove something which has already been debunked time and time again? All in the name of "research"?

    Take your propaganda somewhere else comrade. It's not welcome here in the land of the free, and home of the brave!
    Wow...are you sure..like the deportation argument...since CNA's and PCT's and EMT's etc...etc...are not "Nurses" should they be told to leave this forum? And gosh...are you really invoking "the red scare"...if you stopped watching Fox or glen beck you might feel a little better...
    glowbug and Sisyphus like this.


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