Healthcare is NOT a basic human right. - page 28

If one were to read the Constitution one would realize that the Constitution does not grant anyone freedoms, liberties, or rights. The Constitution only protects freedoms, liberties, and rights from... Read More

  1. Visit  toekneejo profile page
    0
    Quote from SA2009
    It's great that your patient is able to do; regretfully, many people live paycheck from paycheck. What are they to do? What are people to do who do not have family here or close by or whose family does not have much either.

    It always comes down to the bottom line that who has money can afford to whatever. Others, who are not as fortunate, I mean this as having worked as teacher in public schools with children who may ever reach the American dream and worked in factories where even the CEO/CFO gave up their monthly payments who literally covered the payroll of 120 workers who lived paycheck to paycheck, what are they to do?

    Please tell m, though, if you do not have anything saved up, you have lost your job for whatever reason and thus your healthcare coverage, you require meds that run in the hundreds a month, you're working a job that is poorly paid, no partner, now you have a medical crises but you don't want to quit your job so you get MediCare - please tell, what can you do??
    I am saddened whenever someone can't have what they need and/or want. I also believe that in times of need most will find help. I'm not saying all and that is unfortunate. I also am not saying that healthcare should not be addressed.
    However I do have a couple of thoughts
    1st Why just because I am an American I am forced to put into a collection plate that is set up to fail, due to the many of facets that have not been fixed prior to implementation?
    2nd Why must Massachusetts who has forged ahead in their own state be forced to surrender to the doomed plan?
    3rd Why do people think that everything in life must be fair? Doesn't anyone want to play the game of life anymore? Are we going to set life on auto pilot and go around like a merry go round?

    I'm not being disrespectful, I really would like these answers. Thank you
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  3. Visit  FMF Corpsman profile page
    3
    Quote from Jeweles26
    I didn't say the massacres were equal, I said it went both ways.

    And like I said, how many peoples do you know who not only let the people they conquered keep land, but gave them benefits and kept apologizing. That was how things were in those times. They explored, they conquered, they took over. Not many conquerors did what the Europeans did. Im not saying what they did was right. By our standards, it was a thousand different kinds of messed up. I am just saying that for that day and age, what they did was pretty humane.
    I think I saw in an earlier post that you are from Canada, right? I will take that as the reason you are not as familar with the true history of the American West as someone who was educated in US schools might be and maybe took American History classes. You have your own views on the subject which I am obviously not going to change in one post and I have my own, which are based on the truth of what happened in the US according to eye witness testimony and the accounts recorded by numerous US Army soldiers, home steaders, wagontrain captains, pony express riders and other people who recorded statements about their life and times on the plains during those times. Jewles, thoses commiting the acts against the indians were not even Europeans by that time. They were American settlers and the American Army and what they did could in no manner be construed as HUMANE. AND, At that point, they were not giving back land, they were taking it.
    lindarn, wooh, and malamud69 like this.
  4. Visit  Asystole RN profile page
    0
    [QUOTE=Fiona59;6968189]
    Quote from Asystole RN

    Really? Ever been to Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary or Montreal?http://www.ccsd.ca/factsheets/demogr...mographics.pdf

    First Nations make up roughly 4% of the population. So you are wrong right there.
    You are right, I looked at another resource and it shows about an 80% white population. Nonetheless, the United States is over nine times the size in population, not anywhere comparable.

    EDIT TO ADD:

    In fact, it appears there are nearly double the amount of illegal immigrants in the United States as there are visible minorities in Canada.

    Yeah, this is like comparing your local high school to Florida.
  5. Visit  Fiona59 profile page
    2
    [QUOTE=Asystole RN;6968146]
    Quote from Fiona59

    Spare me.

    Not only are their significant governmental differences, but demographic as well.

    United States
    314 Million population (11.2 Million Illegal Immigrants)
    72% White

    United Kingdom
    62 Million population
    92% White

    Canada
    34 Million population
    98% White
    It never ceases to amaze me that "highly educated" Americans know so little of the world.

    Canada is NOT 98% white. Ever been to Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver. There are entire neighbourhoods where you won't see a "white" face or hear English or French Spoken

    .http://www.ccsd.ca/factsheets/demogr...mographics.pdf

    First Nations people make up roughly 4% of the population.

    The UK is no way 92% white.

    Immigrant groups have the highest birth rates in these two countries.
    joanna73 and Sisyphus like this.
  6. Visit  toekneejo profile page
    0
    [QUOTE=Fiona59;6968210]
    Quote from Asystole RN

    It never ceases to amaze me that "highly educated" Americans know so little of the world.

    Canada is NOT 98% white. Ever been to Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver. There are entire neighbourhoods where you won't see a "white" face or hear English or French Spoken

    .http://www.ccsd.ca/factsheets/demogr...mographics.pdf

    First Nations people make up roughly 4% of the population.

    The UK is no way 92% white.

    Immigrant groups have the highest birth rates in these two countries.

    She has since corrected her resource, however that wasn't even the point (in fact I'm not sure why race was even mentioned) Comparing the US to Canada is wasting our posts. We are trying to decipher the opinions and ideas of what America should do based on America. Actually we were discussing whether healthcare is a right however I believe that the reason for the question was to try to come to grips with the current dilemma America is facing.
  7. Visit  FMF Corpsman profile page
    1
    Quote from Asystole RN
    I did not kill anyone. Jeweles has not killed anyone (I hope). Anyone involved in the Indian wars is dead.

    Leave it alone.

    BTW, I'm not white.
    Excuse me? What exactly does your race have to do with anything here? My conversation with another poster regarding the Indian Wars involves you how? I am merely attempting to correct a mistaken impression by another member, of the facts of American History, which is very near and dear to my heart.


    You, on the other hand are not my keeper and I do not answer to you, if you'd care to PM me, we can discuss this further, otherwise this isn't a topic for the boards.

    Good day.
    malamud69 likes this.
  8. Visit  Asystole RN profile page
    0
    Quote from FMF Corpsman
    Excuse me? What exactly does your race have to do with anything here? My conversation with another poster regarding the Indian Wars involves you how? I am merely attempting to correct a mistaken impression by another member, of the facts of American History, which is very near and dear to my heart.


    You, on the other hand are not my keeper and I do not answer to you, if you'd care to PM me, we can discuss this further, otherwise this isn't a topic for the boards.

    Good day.
    My race is to dismiss the usual rebuttal of "you're white so you don't care/are racist" that is usually thrown around in this kind of topic.

    There are no private conversations in a public thread, especially a thread concerning healthcare as a human right. I forget how Indians came up, I think it had to do something with illegal immigration and providing care to them. I don't know.

    So how do you feel about healthcare being a human right?
  9. Visit  wooh profile page
    4
    Quote from Texan45

    I am tired of getting my check after two weeks of work and seeing 25% of it taken from me by the federal government.
    Me too. But it's worth it to have roads to drive on. Cleanish air to breathe. And all the other things that I like the government to provide.

    Quote from Asystole RN

    Spare me.

    Not only are their significant governmental differences, but demographic as well.

    United States
    314 Million population (11.2 Million Illegal Immigrants)
    72% White

    United Kingdom
    62 Million population
    92% White

    Canada
    34 Million population
    98% White
    Quote from Asystole RN

    You are right, I looked at another resource and it shows about an 80% white population.
    In fact, it appears there are nearly double the amount of illegal immigrants in the United States as there are visible minorities in Canada.
    I can understand a possible difference when it comes to sheer number of the population. Possibly a difference when it comes to number of legal vs. illegal immigrants.

    But what on earth does it matter what color the population is? Who cares if they're a "visible minority"? Are legal immigrants from Canada that are white affecting our health care system in any way that's different from legal immigrants coming from Mexico that are brown?
    joanna73, VanLpn, JMBnurse, and 1 other like this.
  10. Visit  FMF Corpsman profile page
    2
    Quote from Asystole RN
    My race is to dismiss the usual rebuttal of "you're white so you don't care/are racist" that is usually thrown around in this kind of topic.

    There are no private conversations in a public thread, especially a thread concerning healthcare as a human right. I forget how Indians came up, I think it had to do something with illegal immigration and providing care to them. I don't know.

    So how do you feel about healthcare being a human right?
    43 years ago, I became too busy seeing red to notice what the underlying color was and I’ve never started to look since then. All of my Marines addressed me as Doc, as a sign of respect, no matter what color they were, and that wasn’t always the case for all of the Corpsman over there. Some of them weren’t called anything at all, and for a man to be wounded and to still ignore someone who could help them, and wait until another Corpsman’s available, that’s pretty profound, but Viet Nam was a pretty profound place. So no, I don’t see race, there still isn’t time, if I don’t have time for political correctness, and I certainly don’t have time for race.

    My apologies, I hadn’t realized I hadn’t really weighed in on this topic. I spoke, but not on topic, per se. I think each of us are equally born and equally have inherent rights. One of those Rights is, Basic Health Care. With those rights, come inherent responsibilities and part of those responsibilities are to pay the freight for that care. We can’t expect others to pay for OUR care, unless we are youngsters, disabled, or old. The youngsters should be paid for by their parents. On a personal note, and this may be viewed as a prejudice, but so be it, I think there should be a cap on families, I don’t think people should be having 6, 8, 10+ babies, that’s just ridiculous in my personal opinion. The World’s Population is out of control as it is. Basic Health Care should be subsidized by the Government and we all know that purchases made in bulk are cheaper, so... Pharmacy prices should be much more under control and not at the prices, they are now. $30.00 a pill is ridiculous, when we all know that the manufacture price is close to .30 cents tops. Hospital prices need to be governed, to pay the cost of a disp. fracture at $400.00. Billing should be sent to Prison for strong Armed Robbery, instead they get twenty more pages of exorbitant pages of overpriced BS. They get away with it, because they get paid, over and over by the Insurance Companies and we don’t even want to start taking about them do we. The system is broke. Is ObamaCare the answer? It does provide for coverage where there was none before. It isn’t perfect, but there something to start working with and to build on. With Romney, we have words, but little else. Is that enough. He’s already written off 47% of the country. I don’t know.
    Last edit by FMF Corpsman on Oct 3, '12 : Reason: HTML edit
    rntj and lindarn like this.
  11. Visit  uRNmyway profile page
    2
    Quote from FMF Corpsman
    I think I saw in an earlier post that you are from Canada, right? I will take that as the reason you are not as familar with the true history of the American West as someone who was educated in US schools might be and maybe took American History classes. You have your own views on the subject which I am obviously not going to change in one post and I have my own, which are based on the truth of what happened in the US according to eye witness testimony and the accounts recorded by numerous US Army soldiers, home steaders, wagontrain captains, pony express riders and other people who recorded statements about their life and times on the plains during those times. Jewles, thoses commiting the acts against the indians were not even Europeans by that time. They were American settlers and the American Army and what they did could in no manner be construed as HUMANE. AND, At that point, they were not giving back land, they were taking it.
    Well yes, I am from Canada. However, I don't know if you aware of the fact that we ALSO had Native Americans in Canada. And like I said, yes, by our modern day standards, what happened was many different kinds of messed up. But by the standards of THOSE days, what they did was more humane than most other civilizations would have been. Again, not condoning the mass slaughter of ANYONE, no matter the color of their skin. Just saying that as far as the behavior of people in that day and age, it could certainly have been worse... And like Asystole said, I didn't kill anyone, my parents didn't, their parents didn't, etc. In fact, Canada was where many went to escape poor treatment. So I find it frustrating to be treated like I personally did something wrong for something that happened hundreds of years before I was born.
    alwayslookingnp and mc3 like this.
  12. Visit  uRNmyway profile page
    2
    Quote from FMF Corpsman
    43 years ago, I became too busy seeing red to notice what the underlying color was and I’ve never started to look since then. All of my Marines addressed me as Doc, as a sign of respect, no matter what color they were, and that wasn’t always the case for all of the Corpsman over there. Some of them weren’t called anything at all, and for a man to be wounded and to still ignore someone who could help them, and wait until another Corpsman’s available, that’s pretty profound, but Viet Nam was a pretty profound place. So no, I don’t see race, there still isn’t time, if I don’t have time for political correctness, and I certainly don’t have time for race.

    My apologies, I hadn’t realized I hadn’t really weighed in on this topic. I spoke, but not on topic, per se. I think each of us are equally born and equally have inherent rights. One of those Rights is, Basic Health Care. With those rights, come inherent responsibilities and part of those responsibilities are to pay the freight for that care. We can’t expect others to pay for OUR care, unless we are youngsters, disabled, or old. The youngsters should be paid for by their parents. On a personal note, and this may be viewed as a prejudice, but so be it, I think there should be a cap on families, I don’t think people should be having 6, 8, 10+ babies, that’s just ridiculous in my personal opinion. The World’s Population is out of control as it is. Basic Health Care should be subsidized by the Government and we all know that purchases made in bulk are cheaper, so... Pharmacy prices should be much more under control and not at the prices, they are now. $30.00 a pill is ridiculous, when we all know that the manufacture price is close to .30 cents tops. Hospital prices need to be governed, to pay the cost of a disp. fracture at $400.00. Billing should be sent to Prison for strong Armed Robbery, instead they get twenty more pages of exorbitant pages of overpriced BS. They get away with it, because they get paid, over and over by the Insurance Companies and we don’t even want to start taking about them do we. The system is broke. Is ObamaCare the answer? It does provide for coverage where there was none before. It isn’t perfect, but there something to start working with and to build on. With Romney, we have words, but little else. Is that enough. He’s already written off 47% of the country. I don’t know.
    I might not think Romney is a great choice for president, but I don't think what he said was 'writing off' anyone. He was just saying there was no point in focusing his campaigning on those people because they were going to vote for Obama no matter what. I am sure he would still think of them in his decision making were he to be elected.
    alwayslookingnp and mc3 like this.
  13. Visit  Fiona59 profile page
    1
    Quote from Jeweles26
    Well yes, I am from Canada. However, I don't know if you aware of the fact that we ALSO had Native Americans in Canada. And like I said, yes, by our modern day standards, what happened was many different kinds of messed up. But by the standards of THOSE days, what they did was more humane than most other civilizations would have been. Again, not condoning the mass slaughter of ANYONE, no matter the color of their skin. Just saying that as far as the behavior of people in that day and age, it could certainly have been worse... And like Asystole said, I didn't kill anyone, my parents didn't, their parents didn't, etc. In fact, Canada was where many went to escape poor treatment. So I find it frustrating to be treated like I personally did something wrong for something that happened hundreds of years before I was born.
    Your last sentence sums up a big part of what is wrong with Canada. We have to apologize for everything and try and right every historical wrong. My family moved there in the 1960s. How in any way are we responsible for displacement of First Nations peoples, the Internment of the Japanese, the Ukranian famine of the (1930s), the Eugenics movement of the 1930s up to the 1970s of the the province of Alberta, the Chinese Head Tax, the refusal of landing for the Komata Maru? Yet, my elected government has apologized for all of these events. Will I ever see the English apologize for Culloden or the Highland Clearances? I doubt it.

    Canada's treatment of First Nations peoples is far from perfect but there was never out and out genocide on the level of the US.
    joanna73 likes this.
  14. Visit  FMF Corpsman profile page
    0
    Quote from Jeweles26
    Well yes, I am from Canada. However, I don't know if you aware of the fact that we ALSO had Native Americans in Canada. And like I said, yes, by our modern day standards, what happened was many different kinds of messed up. But by the standards of THOSE days, what they did was more humane than most other civilizations would have been. Again, not condoning the mass slaughter of ANYONE, no matter the color of their skin. Just saying that as far as the behavior of people in that day and age, it could certainly have been worse... And like Asystole said, I didn't kill anyone, my parents didn't, their parents didn't, etc. In fact, Canada was where many went to escape poor treatment. So I find it frustrating to be treated like I personally did something wrong for something that happened hundreds of years before I was born.
    Jeweles, I didn't say you killed anyone, I didn't mean to imply you killed anyone or that your immediate family was responsible for anyone's death. My first post to you was made in an effort to clear up what I thought was an error in your thinking regarding the treatment of The American Indians.

    Quote from Jeweles26
    As for the slaughter of Natives. Yes, there was slaughter. It went both ways. But how many conquering people do you know who give the conquered land, benefits, tax exemptions, and apologize every chance they get?
    To which I responded:

    I'm sorry Jeweles26; it took me about ten times reading this, before I understood what you meant. I still am not certain about the "it went both ways" part. If you are referring to the Native Indians slaughtering the White man, I'm afraid you've been misinformed. I realize we are somewhat off topic here, but I feel the dire need to correct the misconception. While there were indeed white people killed by Indians, the miniscule amount is barely a drop in the bucket compared to the number of Native American's butchered at the hands of the White man. While it is impossible to nail down an accurate number, there are guesstimates of between 75-112 million Indians were massacred at the hands of the White man, between the years of 1772 and 1896. So in choosing your words, I would say it went more one-way than the other. So I damn well think an apology is in order, don't you? Maybe a little more even. AND, about that giving them LAND, WOW, kinda tough to give them what belonged to them and they killed everyone to take it away from them and then, they are making like it's a BIG deal to give it back to them? BS. I think maybe the White boys are trying to change the History Books.

    My point being that in the UNITED STATES, Not Canada, I am sorry to admit, I am not all that familiar with Canadian history. I should have been more diligent in my studies and included the Provences, but unfortunately I limited myself to the Continental US and Alaska. I'm not even all that familiar with Hawaii. I was always disturbed by the way the Indians were mistreated, even as a child when we played Cowboys and Indians, I was the one who took on the role of the Indian. I always won and soon no one wanted to play that game anymore.


    I am aware that many of the Native Tribes would cross the northern borders into (would be) Canada to avoid the Army and to hunt, part of the Buffalo trails would also lead them into Canada part of the year.

    You keep saying that what they did should be considered humane. I don't understand how wiping out the entire village, including the women and children, raping the women, and scalping everyone, even little children with just moderately long hair, should be considered humane. How about killing off enormous herds of Buffalo just so the Indians wouldn't have anything to eat, is that the humane part? or poisoning the watering holes? They killed off over a Hundred million Indians and then those that were left they forced onto Reservations and made them cut their hair into the white mans style haircuts and learn and speak only English and dance the way the white man danced, not like an Indian danced, they robbed them of their culture and their identity. Was that the humane thing to do? I'm sorry, I just don't see it. If we were to even attempt to do that to the Black man today, there would be such an uprising, and rightfully so. You don't so that to anyone and expect them to just roll over and accept it. You most certainly do it and then call it humane.

    Now, I'm through with it.





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