Country's with socialized medicine vs the USA (Personal Income Tax)

321Beck · Jul 21, 2009

To the initial post. I don't mind paying higher taxes as long as I get a return, i.e. Universal Healthcare.
If I got hit by a bus, my first concern would be getting adequate medical treatment (which I could get in any developed nation) and then, my second concern if I was lucky enough to recover, would be calling a bankruptcy attorney.

Ok - so you dont mind paying more MONEY in order to get a SERVICE. Why not pay that money that you would pay in taxes to a private insurer for insurance? I love it when we talk taxes and there is always one or two people that say "I dont mind paying higher taxes if i get something for it", there is always at least one - its like they wouldnt shell out money on their own accord to pick up private insurance but if the government forces them to, they dont have a problem with it? Does this make any rational/logical sense at all? By the way, nothing stops you from writing a check to the federal government, you can, should you choose, pay more income taxes and make a donation to uncle sam at the end of the year if you think that he can spend your money better than you can. I dont know, perhaps some people actually would rather give the government money and expect them to spend it rather than spending that money themselves - for me, it makes no sense whatsoever.

321Beck · Jul 21, 2009

What I really want is help stop Americans from dying from lack of health insurance....
Here is a chart showing what other countries really pay in taxes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_around_the_world
Here is a great website showing how other countries have implemented national health care: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91972152
We have socialized education, socialized police and fire, and socialized postal system. Why not socialized health care?

Why not socialize housing and food as well? Why not socialize higher learning? Lets just socialize everything while were are at it? Why not right? Its called I like to have money in my paycheck after taxes are taken out. If you like the government taking all your money why dont you just give more during tax time nothing is stopping you.

321Beck · Jul 21, 2009

So when have you made enough money? How about I cap your income at say, $35,000 per year. That is more than enough to live on because I said so. Do you realize how dangerous it is limiting a private corporations profit? This isn't the USSR, or do you want it to be the Communist States of America?

There is no 37% federal tax bracket - explain.

elkpark · Jul 21, 2009

Ok - so you dont mind paying more MONEY in order to get a SERVICE. Why not pay that money that you would pay in taxes to a private insurer for insurance? I love it when we talk taxes and there is always one or two people that say "I dont mind paying higher taxes if i get something for it", there is always at least one - its like they wouldnt shell out money on their own accord to pick up private insurance but if the government forces them to, they dont have a problem with it? Does this make any rational/logical sense at all? By the way, nothing stops you from writing a check to the federal government, you can, should you choose, pay more income taxes and make a donation to uncle sam at the end of the year if you think that he can spend your money better than you can. I dont know, perhaps some people actually would rather give the government money and expect them to spend it rather than spending that money themselves - for me, it makes no sense whatsoever.

It makes plenty of "rational/logical sense." I am another who would much rather pay taxes for non-profit, universal healthcare coverage than pay premiums to a private insurance company -- because a) the actual $$ amount would probably be significantly less than current insurance premiums, and b) the for-profit insurance companies suck ~1/3 of our premium dollars "off the top" to pay for shareholder dividends, bloated executive salaries & bonuses, and advertising, and then turn around and refuse to pay claims when the poor schmucks who paid for the insurance in good faith need it.

What I cannot understand is how anyone (outside of the Big Insurance and Big Pharm lobbies, that is :rolleyes: ) can still defend the current healthcare system in this country.

321Beck · Jul 21, 2009

It makes plenty of "rational/logical sense." I am another who would much rather pay taxes for non-profit, universal healthcare coverage than pay premiums to a private insurance company -- because a) the actual $$ amount would probably be significantly less than current insurance premiums, and b) the for-profit insurance companies suck ~1/3 of our premium dollars "off the top" to pay for shareholder dividends, bloated executive salaries & bonuses, and advertising, and then turn around and refuse to pay claims when the poor schmucks who paid for the insurance in good faith need it.
What I cannot understand is how anyone (outside of the Big Insurance and Big Pharm lobbies, that is ) can still defend the current healthcare system in this country.

No it doesnt make rational logical sense -- And what kind of government insurance are you going to get from Nancy Pelosi? You probably will pay less money, premium wise, for your socialist insurance but you will no doubt in the end be paying higher taxes and if the care you get from your bloated government insurance is anything like UK or Canada you can keep it. You might pay less premiums but you are not going to recieve timely care when you want it(unless you have the sniffles) but god forbid you have a real medical problem you can wait 6 months to get an MRI or see a specialist - then you can fly to another country to pay cash to see a specialist or get surgery(like all the canadians do). Do you think MD"s want to make 80 grand a year after putting themselves 300 thousand and debt and spending 10 years in school? I am sure you think 80 thousand a year makes people "rich" but news flash, it hardly is. MD's will be making 80 grand grand a year once nancy pelosi and BO have things their way - lets control costs more, reduce money paid to providers and you think the DR/Nursing shortage is bad now??? Wait till this garbage passes - but I guess as long as you want universal healthcare so that every man woman child and illegal alien has healthcare (that sucks) that is all that matters. I am happy and satisfied with my private insurance company, ill take it anyday over the government - medicare sucks bad enough as it is you think that I want them running healthcare? Oh and how can you be so nieve to assume the government wont limit services to people? Its like you just think the once the government takes over they are going to cover everybody for everything no matter what - that is just stupidity and ignorance. Keep your socialist garbage - ill take the private.

elkpark · Jul 21, 2009

No it doesnt make rational logical sense -- And what kind of government insurance are you going to get from Nancy Pelosi? You probably will pay less money, premium wise, for your socialist insurance but you will no doubt in the end be paying higher taxes and if the care you get from your bloated government insurance is anything like UK or Canada you can keep it. You might pay less premiums but you are not going to recieve timely care when you want it(unless you have the sniffles) but god forbid you have a real medical problem you can wait 6 months to get an MRI or see a specialist - then you can fly to another country to pay cash to see a specialist or get surgery(like all the canadians do). Do you think MD"s want to make 80 grand a year after putting themselves 300 thousand and debt and spending 10 years in school? I am sure you think 80 thousand a year makes people "rich" but news flash, it hardly is. MD's will be making 80 grand grand a year once nancy pelosi and BO have things their way - lets control costs more, reduce money paid to providers and you think the DR/Nursing shortage is bad now??? Wait till this garbage passes - but I guess as long as you want universal healthcare so that every man woman child and illegal alien has healthcare (that sucks) that is all that matters. I am happy and satisfied with my private insurance company, ill take it anyday over the government - medicare sucks bad enough as it is you think that I want them running healthcare? Oh and how can you be so nieve to assume the government wont limit services to people? Its like you just think the once the government takes over they are going to cover everybody for everything no matter what - that is just stupidity and ignorance. Keep your socialist garbage - ill take the private.

People are not "stupid" or "ignorant" simply because they don't share your views. I'm out of here -- this type of "discussion" is a waste of my time.

321Beck · Jul 21, 2009

People are not "stupid" or "ignorant" simply because they don't share your views. I'm out of here -- this type of "discussion" is a waste of my time.

I am glad what I am saying makes sense to you. and like most of the far left, instead of having a discussion about it they try to shove it down everyones throat without bipartisan support. Like most of the far left, if they are forced to have a discussion about their ideas they either try to silence the opposition or try not to have the discussion at all (like say I dont have anything to come up with to counter your logical argument, I am not even going to try). :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

RedCell · Jul 21, 2009

We have socialized education, socialized police and fire, and socialized postal system. Why not socialized health care?

Are you serious? How about we take a look at socialized education. Government sckrewls are failing and every year tax payers are forced to dump more money into them. What do we get in return? A bunch of idiots who could not identify Afghanistan on a map much less do simple algebra or even name who their senators or congressmen are. It is PATHETIC. Private schools are far superior to socialized education.

What about the socialized USPS? It is a bumbling and hopeless system. What is their solution? Again demand more money. Take a look at private industry; DHL for example... They run circles around these ass clowns.

Spending more money is not always the answer. Look at what BO did with this spending bill. Yeah that has helped a lot. Unemployment is even higher than before, though we were told spending money we didn't have would drop unemployment and create jobs. What is the next brilliant solution? Hell, lets spend some more money (that we don't have).

Everything the government gets their hands on turns to crap. Having a socialized healthcare system would be no different. This country has gone without UHC for almost 230 years, why is the current POTUS acting like it is some kind of national emergency now? Carrying out this plan only feeds in to a society of entitlement. It is a redistribution of wealth that robs the liberties and freedoms of those that are achievers and gives it to someone else. There are other options that have been offered yet they have been grossly ignored.

Onekidneynurse · Jul 22, 2009

Ummm....if you are hit by a bus in the US, need to be on life-support, spend two months in the ICU, you WILL go into bankruptcy unless you are independently wealthy.....I know a woman who is financially ruined due to an ICU stay of a month due to pneumonia. I know another man who is bankrupt because he had to put his wife into a nursing home, and all
'extra' income goes to same nursing home.......
As to tax rates.....we get what we pay for, don't we? If we as a society are not going to pay for services, we won't get them. I, too, am good with paying more in taxes (as long as those richer than I are paying more than I am, which currently they are generally NOT doing now) to ensure that someone doesn't have to go bankrupt to get the care they need. Greed and wealth at the expense of everyone else does not sit well with me, so I do not see an issue with limiting corporations and what they can make off of everyone else......

I know a patient who's been in the hospital since January. She's on State medicaid. No NH will take her because she's dialysis dependent and has a trach. A trach she takes care of by herself. Another state will take her but the State she lives in won't pay that NH. They would rather pay the hospital for her care.

Citing people who aren't getting care is fruitless, because for every case you can site many of us can site people getting care.

What needs to be done is to reduce the COST of healthcare in the US. Never mind who pays for it. Make it affordable for every one.

Please don't compare us to France. Most French people have private insurance so they don't have to go to state run hospitals or wait for care. So it's not an equal system. Those who can afford it can get it quicker and better. So they are not getting free care they are paying excess taxes and paying for private insurance.

Please name me a premium Cancer Center in France. I can name you one in the USA. Sloan Kettering in NYC.

UKRNinUSA, RN · Jul 22, 2009

It makes plenty of "rational/logical sense." I am another who would much rather pay taxes for non-profit, universal healthcare coverage than pay premiums to a private insurance company -- because a) the actual $$ amount would probably be significantly less than current insurance premiums, and b) the for-profit insurance companies suck ~1/3 of our premium dollars "off the top" to pay for shareholder dividends, bloated executive salaries & bonuses, and advertising, and then turn around and refuse to pay claims when the poor schmucks who paid for the insurance in good faith need it.
What I cannot understand is how anyone (outside of the Big Insurance and Big Pharm lobbies, that is ) can still defend the current healthcare system in this country.

I am with you 100%. I am amazed at the GULLIBILITY of those that have succumbed to the BRAINWASHING of Republican Talking Heads/Big Insurance/Big Pharma and continue to support ideas that are totally AGAINST their own interests for fear of some IMAGINARY socialist monster.

WAKE UP -embrace the FACTS and don't spoil it for all the rest of us that want to stop getting screwed over by the current system -PLEASE!!!!!!

ACU_RN · Jul 22, 2009

Ummm....if you are hit by a bus in the US, need to be on life-support, spend two months in the ICU, you WILL go into bankruptcy unless you are independently wealthy.....I know a woman who is financially ruined due to an ICU stay of a month due to pneumonia. I know another man who is bankrupt because he had to put his wife into a nursing home, and all
'extra' income goes to same nursing home.......
As to tax rates.....we get what we pay for, don't we? If we as a society are not going to pay for services, we won't get them. I, too, am good with paying more in taxes (as long as those richer than I are paying more than I am, which currently they are generally NOT doing now) to ensure that someone doesn't have to go bankrupt to get the care they need. Greed and wealth at the expense of everyone else does not sit well with me, so I do not see an issue with limiting corporations and what they can make off of everyone else......

So your alright with a neurosurgeon who earns $400,000 per year in the state of New York being taxed $200,000? That is not right. I am not okay paying more taxes, I want less taxation. We fought a revolution over taxation.

Why are wealthy people demonized? The majority have worked hard, let them keep there money. How about a flat tax? Everybody pays the same. That is fair.

My father was in the hospital for four weeks, one on a med surg floor and three in ICU....he is not bankrupt. Far from it. He has private insurance and is a chemical worker. Try again.

ACU_RN · Jul 22, 2009

Are you serious? How about we take a look at socialized education. Government sckrewls are failing and every year tax payers are forced to dump more money into them. What do we get in return? A bunch of idiots who could not identify Afghanistan on a map much less do simple algebra or even name who their senators or congressmen are. It is PATHETIC. Private schools are far superior to socialized education.
What about the socialized USPS? It is a bumbling and hopeless system. What is their solution? Again demand more money. Take a look at private industry; DHL for example... They run circles around these ass clowns.
Spending more money is not always the answer. Look at what BO did with this spending bill. Yeah that has helped a lot. Unemployment is even higher than before, though we were told spending money we didn't have would drop unemployment and create jobs. What is the next brilliant solution? Hell, lets spend some more money (that we don't have).
Everything the government gets their hands on turns to crap. Having a socialized healthcare system would be no different. This country has gone without UHC for almost 230 years, why is the current POTUS acting like it is some kind of national emergency now? Carrying out this plan only feeds in to a society of entitlement. It is a redistribution of wealth that robs the liberties and freedoms of those that are achievers and gives it to someone else. There are other options that have been offered yet they have been grossly ignored.

Good post, but liberals won't understand because it makes sense. Babble a little bit, make no sense and talk about raising taxes and they'll nod in agreement, scream change, and be your friend.

EVERYONE KNOWS WE HAVE PROBLEMS IN OUR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM, BUT UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE IS NOT THE ANSWER.

I was educated in private school and my son goes to private school. I refused to let him attend the socialist indoctrination camps.