Bad reaction by prospective employer

[catmom1, BSN, RN]

I must be getting better with the shame thing that caused me to stay away from nursing for over five years after my license suspension was up.

I applied for a nurse case manager (MDS) position in a fancy schmancy nursing home in my area. This has been my specialty since starting my 5 years of license probation 4 years ago. I am excellent at what I do.

I applied the first day the job was posted, was very upbeat, sold myself well in an initial meeting with the administrator and director of nursing. I was expecting a call back to set up a more formal interview.

Well, the next day, the director of nursing calls me and says in a very cold tone that because of what it says on my states "Department of Health and Human Services website, " they will not consider me for the position. He said that if I were the only one available and they were absolutely desperate, they might consider me, but that they had other candidates. I said what about when my probation is over? He said they would "judge that on a case by case basis."

He seemed almost offended that I dared to apply at their facility. I was not dishonest. I filled out the application fully and truthfully and would have revealed all details of my probation if it seemed they were truly interested in hiring me.

Anyway, my point in all this is that I didn't feel like a worthless little worm, as he appeared to see me. I found it puzzling that someone would take that attitude about a person who has called in daily for random urine drug screens for well over 4 years now. Of course, he probably has no idea of the flaming hoops I have had to jump through to have a valid nursing license.

He is just ignorant I guess.

I am tempted to send an email thanking him and his administrator for considering me for the position, which would include a sincere thank you to the director of nursing for his candor. You see, I had previously applied at this facility and another one owned by the same company and couldn't figure out why I just got the generic turn down letter in the mail without even an interview. In fact, I had called an HR person at one of the facilities to get feedback on what the problem had been. All she would say was: "We have applicants who are a better fits that we are pursuing." I saw the jobs in both these cases reposted within days of being told that more desirable candidates had applied.

Addicts aren't the only ones who lie, so I am glad the reason I was turned down was told to me so I need not waste my time applying with them in the future.

It has taken a LONG time for me to get to this point, but I am glad I rarely feel like I am going to die of shame any more. With job hunting, shame can crop up but it is nothing like it was when I first had my license disciplined in the Summer of 2000.

Catmom :paw:

[jackstem]

What an awesome display of serenity and grace in recovery!

Jack

[Code55]

It's interesting that most employers or managers still believe the line, "once a drug addict, always a drug (active) addict." I sure they treat their addicted patient's the say way while seemingly showing compassion? What's happening with our nursing education? Societal stigma continues to overlap in the profession.

[jackstem]

It's interesting that most employers or managers still believe the line, "once a drug addict, always a drug (active) addict." I sure they treat their addicted patient's the say way while seemingly showing compassion? What's happening with our nursing education? Societal stigma continues to overlap in the profession.

Code55, you are exactly right, I have no doubt a nurse who "looks down their nose" at a colleague with this disease does the same thing to any patient with addiction (especially if they are in an active phase). However, I also see a special level of contempt for nurses with addiction, active or in remission. There is a myth that health care providers, by virtue of their training, are immune to the disease. The general public believes this as well. But the state of most training program curricula is that there is little taught about the disease itself...the actual pathophysiology that occurs in the brain when the perfect storm of genetics, poor coping skills, environment, exposure, and stress come together to produce this disease. Most programs (and I'm talking medical, nursing, dental, pharmacy, etc.) discuss the ramifications of the disease (cirrhosis, HIV/AIDS, other infections, organ damage, crime, etc.) but not the disease itself.

Stigma results from ignorance. It's tough to fix that when many nurses; a) don't know they don't know, and b) think they know everything they need to know about the disease (something I had an advanced practice nurse tell me during a presentation I was giving). I like a quote someone posted in this Recovery forum:

"You can lead a person to knowledge, but you cannot make them think!"

Ignorance is forgivable. Willful ignorance by a "professional" is not only UN-professional, but unethical and dangerous. It's up to us, as recovering nurses, to be the leaders in changing the current sad state of affairs.

ANA Code of ethics states:

"Provision 3. The nurse promotes, advocates for, and strives to protect the health, safety, and rights of the patient."

An addicted colleague fits the definition of patient. Furthermore, Provision 3.6 states:

“In a situation where a nurse suspects another’s practice may be impaired, the nurse’s duty is to take action designed both to protect patients and to assure that the impaired individual receives assistance in regaining optimal function.

Nurses in all roles should advocate for colleagues whose job performance may be impaired to assure that they receive appropriate assistance, treatment and access to fair institutional and legal processes. This includes supporting the return to practice of the individual who has sought assistance and is ready to resume professional duties.” (Provision 3.6 Addressing impaired practice)

It takes great deal of courage to advocate for an impaired colleague. If we can't do it for our own, how can we do it for the patients we care for?

Jack

[Dixiecup]

If being on probation has done anything to help me at all it has made me have more empathy and look at things from another prospective.

I am a nurse practitioner but in my last nursing position I was an ADON at a nursing facility. I often did the hiring. I have hired several people who had less than stellar background checks where I am sure another person would have turned them down flat.

Everyone deserves a second chance and I was going to give it to them.

[catmom1, BSN, RN]

I sure hope I can find a hiring manager like you, Dixiecup! I need a job badly!

Catmom :paw:

[catmom1, BSN, RN]

Update:

I am still looking for a job and my unemployment will run out within the next 2 months. I am afraid my brave words about not feeling ashamed last October have evaporated.

I have turned myself inside out to try to find a job. My five years of probation was to be over in June 2011, but is now extended indefinitely until I can get a job and work at least 130 hours per quarter for a year. I know a nurse who altered a prescription while she was on probation to give her an early refill of a controlled substance and the only extra punishment she got was to have her three year probation extended by one year.

I am getting the same treatment when I have passed every drug screen (all observed now, by the way) and attended 3 meetings a week since June of 2006 (in addition to being unable to find a job). The screens cost me $80 each.

My 2 brothers have cut me off because they see me as a failure (In my family if things go badly, you have screwed up. Period.) I had a third brother but he died of an Oxycontin overdose. One of the remaining brothers is an alcoholic but hasn't had any career consequences and is a highly paid surgeon.

Right now I am really wondering if it was worth it to bother with getting clean and sober (since Dec 2004) when the reality I woke up to is like this.

Catmom :paw:

[LisaB19]

You know Catmom, I may be wrong, but the way I read the ADA regulations, we, as former substance abusers, can not be denied a job based on that fact alone. If you search for ADA and drug addiction you will find it. Now, IMHO, do you want to throw that card down?? Maybe this has been discussed before and I haven't seen it, but that is the way that I interpret what is written.

[catmom1, BSN, RN]

You know Catmom, I may be wrong, but the way I read the ADA regulations, we, as former substance abusers, can not be denied a job based on that fact alone. If you search for ADA and drug addiction you will find it. Now, IMHO, do you want to throw that card down?? Maybe this has been discussed before and I haven't seen it, but that is the way that I interpret what is written.

Thank you for your reply. I have seen this suggestion made before but I have never heard of anyone using it successfully. My thought has always been that the employer can always say they denied employment for other reasons. Plus, I have had job offers that were rescinded because they employer has a policy of never hiring nurses with adverse actions on their licenses.

Would you believe that I even went to vocational rehab in my state and they told me they couldn't help me since I had worked as a nurse since my license was initially put on probation. That proved to them that I didn't have a disability and was therefore ineligible for their help.

Catmom :paw:

[mona1023]

Catmom,

First I would like to say congratulations on your sobriety. All your hard work and committment is an inspiration to all of us.

Secondly, I know you stated that that your probation has been extended indefinitely until you work so many hours a quarter. Well, even though it obviously does not pay the bills-will your monitoring program let you do work in nursing as a volunteer to fufill that requirement? I was thinking maybe you could at least get off probation and it may prove easier to get a job. I know in my state that volunteer work (with a worksite monitor, of course) counts towards the 6 month controlled substance restriction and our "time committment". We have to have 6 months of "successful" nursing practice during our RMA's (3yr contracts max) to successfully complete the program.

Like I said, I know this doesn't help financially, but it may be something to think about. Best of luck to you and you will be in my prayers. Please keep us posted.

[Code55]

Hey Catmom,

I'm sorry to hear of your dilemma. Some of these monitoring programs place you in the "damned if you do and damned if you don't" position. My state is one of those too. We can argue all the inequities among programs of States, individual monitoring managers and individuals but we are stuck where we are at. Believe me I have see all sorts of inequities but try and not concern myself with it as much as I previously have.

I am very fortunate to have six months left in my state's monitoring, sober and fairly happy today, yet my nursing career is not what it once was. I am very thankful to be employed as a nurse today but I wouldn't characterize my job any where close to the position I had prior to monitoring. It was very difficult finding a job but I had to take my current position to accumulate hours toward my license and my monitoring program.

One of the most important things I have learned in recovery is "acceptance." This means I don't have to agree with it or like it. It just means "that's the way it is and perhaps God has intended it to be like that." Pg 417 BB.

Catmom, my hat is off to you for more than 5 years of sobriety and recovery? That is huge! You have completed a major mile stone in recovery and it has to mean A LOT! Yes, yes are financial situation mean a lot to us as well.

I don't know where you live or what the demand of nurses are in your area but I think its difficult for many all over the country right now; nursing or not. When you have had job interviews, how have they've gone. Did you and are you required to disclose your situation in the initial interview? This is one area I have to learn the hard way. These days I never disclose my addiction and monitoring situation until a job offer is made and am not required to do so. Most folks do understand people like us, don't get it and really don't care to get it so I need to protect myself as long as I can until I'm required to do so. Most employers will have a harder time backing out after the job offer is made. Moreover, you will really know what they think about folks like us.

Regroup, refocus, pray, go to meeting and keep talking to other nurses in recovery out there. Please, please, don't beat yourself up too hard. Oh, how I like to engage in self pity and mental masturbation too.

My prayers are with you Catmom.

[catmom1, BSN, RN]

Thank you code 55 and mona1023 for your kind replies. Your supportiveness means a lot to me, believe me. Most people I know have no idea what it is to be out of work. Even my health care professionals support group can really get to me. Most of the members are pharmacists whose transgressions were even greater than mine but they were never fired and were offered treatment and a chance to retain their jobs. In fact, I attended it tonight and most of the members talked about how great it is to be sober and working in their chosen profession.

My probationary status is a matter of public record and as the first post in this thread indicates, I wasn't even given an interview at one facility because they saw the black mark and rejected me automatically.

I appreciate all your well wishes and I have been exploring the idea of volunteering but have been turned down at the places I have checked so far. Words can't fully express how sick I am of failing at this job search and having what worked for others in other states not work for me.

Catmom :paw: