online FNP programs

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Does anyone have any suggestions as to which programs are the best online program choices for FNP?

I have to agree with ramiro ac. I also don't feel that NP programs should be done online. For starters, I don't feel that you can possibly get the same level of education as you can in the classroom. I'm not sure exactly what it is, but there is something inherently valuable and irreplaceable about the student-student, student-faculty interaction that only can take place in the classroom. Additionally, online programs serve only to enhance the belief that NPs are suboptimal providers with suboptimal education, not as good as physicians (which may or may not be true anyway, but that's another discussion altogether), and to make people believe that we got our diplomas out of a Cracker Jack box. Throughout this website there are multiple posts from multiple people pissing and moaning about the fact that the nursing profession (RN and NP/CRNA) gets no respect. It is programs like this that contribute to that belief. Like it or not, we need to not simply find the easy way out here, and to jump through society's well established hoops in order to gain the respect that we deserve. That respect cannot be found online. In short, suck it up and do the time.

Maybe there is a little bit of the "if I had to do it then so do you" attitude going on here, or maybe I'm just not keeping up with technological times, but I had to work very hard, commute two hours a day three days a week for three years (while working full-time by the way) to earn my Master's degree, and I don't appreciate all of my hard work and sacrifice being belittled and grouped into the same category as someone who sits on their ass in their living room and "earns" their degree online. Did I receive a better education than my online peers? Absolutely! And no one will convince me otherwise.

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MT-FNP

I have to respond to your post about online programs. Just because things have always been done a certain way doesn't mean that it is the best way. I recently finished my Master's in a traditional program, ranked in the top ten in the US. I did just as you - found childcare ($$$), commuted an hour both ways, paid for parking, sat through three hour classes 3 times per week, put up with disorganization and worked part-time.

I feel differently though. I am resentful that I wasted so much time in my car and in the classroom, just to be read to off of Powerpoint slides. I can read slides at home in much less time and take the time to absorb the material when I am at my best, not when the class is scheduled. All of that time spent could have been spent actually reading the assigned reading instead of skimming and for me, spending time with my family. I didn't feel that I gained anything by being in a classroom at 1 in the afternoon needing a nap because my baby kept me up all night. The only exception, I met some wonderful people through the program.

I don't know if online program are "inferior" but the fact of the matter is most learning happens in the clinical setting and not in the classroom. Online programs have the same clinical requirements as traditional programs. I feel more comfortable about online programs from established universities not an "online university" like UOP. Duke University has an online FNP program. Do you think Duke University would risk its reputation and not prepare its graduates properly? (I didn't go there BTW $$$).

Just some of my opinions. Just like you trying to evolve in the new tech world.

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For starters, I don't feel that you can possibly get the same level of education as you can in the classroom.

Apparently you did not get the appropriate education sitting in the classroom because you failed to understand graduate education. Graduate education normally teaches you how to find out things on your own (like when you are out there in practice by yourself) instead of being spoonfed in a classroom. Online learning is not for everyone, but I think those who can do it are superior in actual practice.

You will notice that many ivy league schools have online learning so they recognize the value of it. FYI...I have an online BSN and a MSN and MBA via the traditional route. Now I'm doing an online FNP because, unlike you. I do not subscribe to the "work harder, not smarter" viewpoint.

... commute two hours a day three days a week for three years (while working full-time by the way) to earn my Master's degree...

Lot's of wasted time...poor cost-benefit ratio...you failed!!

Did I receive a better education than my online peers? Absolutely! And no one will convince me otherwise.

Sorry to be rough on you but you have just demonstrated why your education failed in some regards.

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Thank you for defending ONLINE education. We are no stupider/smarter because we do it online. we are just wiser!!!:) ONline is much better for those who still want to focus on their career but their education also. I have taken both kinds of classes and prefer online classes because of the flexibility. So we could get in a pissing contest of who's better, who's smarter but honestly it is a matter of personal preference. WE LIKE ONLINE AND YOU DON'T online classes you are in control of how well or how bad you do and you have to be way more disciplined. anyways, just my opinion....

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Maybe there is a little bit of the "if I had to do it then so do you" attitude going on here, or maybe I'm just not keeping up with technological times, but I had to work very hard, commute two hours a day three days a week for three years (while working full-time by the way) to earn my Master's degree, and I don't appreciate all of my hard work and sacrifice being belittled and grouped into the same category as someone who sits on their ass in their living room and "earns" their degree online. Did I receive a better education than my online peers? Absolutely! And no one will convince me otherwise.

SO, because I started an MPH program (2nd in the country) that required me to roll out of bed, hop on the free bus and be at school in about 5 minutes- did I not work hard or sacrifice enough for my MPH??? I guess I should have picked a school further away from me, so I could sacrifice more? It isn't the distance that you travel, or the fact that you worked full time, that dictates the quality of education.

On line education has many different challenges: One still has to be organized and find time to complete the modules, one has to arrange their own clinical time with their own preceptors- which can be quite difficult at times- especially if you are working agency and do not have permanent ties to a hospital!

I was accepted into a traditional PhD program at Columbia. But due to financial strains, I won't be attending, instead I am opting for a MSN online.

Which leads me to a question:

Though this is a FNP thread primarily- I'm interested in Nursing education. What do you think of ??? (they offerred me the ability to come to Philadelphia and do clinical time- (teaching their students in their Clinical Settings)so I don't have to arrange it on my own!) I just remember somewhere at sometime in the past my Dad (who is a PhD educator) saying something about Drexel being sort of a Diploma Mill of sorts. But I could have mixed that up in my head and that may have been just for his field- which is not nursing. I'm also looking at Duquesne in Pennsylvania.

Any suggestions?

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I find it interesting that several of those who responded to my previous post chose to attack my opinion rather than the facts, and completely missed the point. The point of my rant and the point of my climbing up on my soapbox was not necessarily to advance my opinion regarding online education, but to acknowledge the fact that those who would keep us down and limit our scope of practice and prescriptive authority (the AMA and it's various subgroups) are continually looking for reasons to take away what many of us have fought so hard to achieve (I'm not quite sure where your head is if you don't think that can happen). Say what you will about online education, but I can guarantee you that the vast majority of people in the aforementioned position consider it substandard education and liken it to a mail-order degree. I say that by giving them the ammunition they need, we are cutting our own throats.

And a word of advice for zenman - Your opinions have very little credibility when you simply attack the opinions and accomplishments of others. Your song and dance about graduate education teaching you how to find things out on your own may hold some water if you are working towards a graduate degree business or computer science, but when we are talking about a profession where we make life and death decisions every day, I can assure you that most people (especially those who would sue you) would rather be taken care of by a provider who had some formal brick and mortar education than by one who simply looked something up and found it out on their own.

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Hey MT-FNP!

You bring up some interesting points.But I think I can shed some light on medical education, since I've done it before. Most, if not all, of my classmates

(about 350) who started at the same time with me are pretty much agree on this...The basic science portion of the program (preclinical, and pre-USMLE step1) could be done ENTIRELY on-line. With the exception of gross anatomy labs, and the ICM (introduction to clinical medicine) right before step1. Actually even for gross more and more med schools are using plastinated cadavers, all sliced up, and disected for you nicely. Just go around the room, and identify the structures they are asking you. Hystology lab is not really a lab. It's all slides, and videos. No more microscopes. I still have to sell mine. Beside that, most lectures are downloaded on the special drive, which could be accessed on campus, or on the net from anywhere in the World. Very often, at least in basic sience, which is taught by PhDs, who've done extensive work for 7-10yrs in their respective fields prior to teaching.So lots of info is not related to clinical application of let's say biochem, or genetics.So it goes right over the heads,and some sculls full of mush:chuckle.After a while ppl don't even show up in class other than for review before an exam. Most went to library, or just studied at home (including on-line), and formed study groups 2-3 ppl. I remember we took turns for every day of the school week recording live lectures on digital video,and sharing with others on CDs, memory sticks, and yes, you guessed it...on line . Believe me, those who critisize NPs are doing it themselves, at every opportunity they get. Of course, once you pass step1, and go on to clinical rotations, and residency no more online.But I don't think that NP clinical portion is taught online either. Believe the PAs and MDs are simply bitter because NPs have been able to keep their employment, while going to school, in most cases anyway. Many allied health pros in med schools are moonlighting, and trying to get by. "C"=MD, but they study very hard before the USMLE steps 1,2,3 to get a good score. Good score = competetive residency, more often than not.

Anyway, everybody is entitled to their own opinions. But if AMA wanted to ever limit NPs scope by the virtue of online vs campus arguement, it won't be too difficult to punch some holes in their arguement.

Hey all! Peace. Don't fight. You are all right on this one

I find it interesting that several of those who responded to my previous post chose to attack my opinion rather than the facts, and completely missed the point. The point of my rant and the point of my climbing up on my soapbox was not necessarily to advance my opinion regarding online education, but to acknowledge the fact that those who would keep us down and limit our scope of practice and prescriptive authority (the AMA and it's various subgroups) are continually looking for reasons to take away what many of us have fought so hard to achieve (I'm not quite sure where your head is if you don't think that can happen). Say what you will about online education, but I can guarantee you that the vast majority of people in the aforementioned position consider it substandard education and liken it to a mail-order degree. I say that by giving them the ammunition they need, we are cutting our own throats.

And a word of advice for zenman - Your opinions have very little credibility when you simply attack the opinions and accomplishments of others. Your song and dance about graduate education teaching you how to find things out on your own may hold some water if you are working towards a graduate degree business or computer science, but when we are talking about a profession where we make life and death decisions every day, I can assure you that most people (especially those who would sue you) would rather be taken care of by a provider who had some formal brick and mortar education than by one who simply looked something up and found it out on their own.

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Right on PapaDoc! You summed it up very nicely. And for the one of you who think that we sit on our *ss, I was working, going to school and had a newborn. Bitterness isn't appreciated from one NP to another who lives in the same state I'm not sure where you get your information and bias from. We need to stick together not back bite. Also there isn't one board who will certify NP's without clinical time hands on period.

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I find it interesting that several of those who responded to my previous post chose to attack my opinion rather than the facts, and completely missed the point. The point of my rant and the point of my climbing up on my soapbox was not necessarily to advance my opinion regarding online education...

Your opinion about online education was exactly what we addressed. The "facts" are where you're not only lacking but behind the times.

And a word of advice for zenman - Your opinions have very little credibility when you simply attack the opinions and accomplishments of others.

If you post in a public forum, you have to learn not to take the opinions of others (based on their experience) as "attacking."

Your song and dance about graduate education teaching you how to find things out on your own may hold some water if you are working towards a graduate degree business or computer science, but when we are talking about a profession where we make life and death decisions every day

"Song and dance" is an adolescent response, don't you think? You're absolutely wrong, the people making life and death decisions need the type of personality that people who gravitate to online education have...that "go getter, I can find it, know where to find it, etc.." type of personality. By the way, I've help medical consultants look up info on diseases, both in the hospital library (they had a library so doctors could look up info!) and on the internet. Lawyers have extensive libraries also. I also have one you would not believe! I was an assistant professor in a school of nursing so I know a little bit about graduate education. You can have your opinion and that's fine, but don't confuse the facts or I'll tell my physician friends that are taking online courses they better drop them quick!

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"The "facts" are where you're not only lacking but behind the times."

Are you serious? It is a fact that the AMA is doing everything within their power to limit/eliminate NP practice. If you don't believe that then perhaps you're doing a bit too much meditating zenman rather than keeping abreast of current issues.

By the way, I too am an assistant professor in a graduate nursing program so I know of what I speak. Also, if and when you finish your program, do me a favor and let me know where you will be practicing - so I can avoid it like the plaque. It is providers like you, who think you know it all, who are dangerous.

I have said my peace and will now leave this topic alone. Thanks for the input from those who responded intellectually.

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"The "facts" are where you're not only lacking but behind the times."

Are you serious? It is a fact that the AMA is doing everything within their power to limit/eliminate NP practice. If you don't believe that then perhaps you're doing a bit too much meditating zenman rather than keeping abreast of current issues.

Well, I don't think I even made a comment about the the AMA. However, I don't worry too much about those guys as they are fighting a losing battle. And meditation is very good for you.

By the way, I too am an assistant professor in a graduate nursing program so I know of what I speak. Also, if...

I have a strong track record!

and when you finish your program, do me a favor and let me know where you will be practicing - so I can avoid it like the plaque. It is providers like you, who think you know it all, who are dangerous.

You're psychic ability is also lacking. Where did you come up with thinking I know it all as I do not. However, I do know where to find it since my MSN program (psych) taught me those skills. I'm in Asia and plan to go to Africa in a few years. I'm also enjoying the benefit of having the opportunity to study via an online program and help people who otherwise have little in the way of quality care. As a nurse I'm sure you have the same caring ability. Plus I'm getting experiences many would kill for!

I have said my peace and will now leave this topic alone. Thanks for the input from those who responded intellectually.

That's "piece" not "peace" although you probably want some peace! Papadoc did a better job of responding than I did. I have a strong personality and have no patience with those who should have a better grasp...particularly those in education! I can not let your lack of knowledge take precedent over my grasp of the subject.

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And a word of advice for zenman - Your opinions have very little credibility when you simply attack the opinions and accomplishments of others.

Isn't that what you are doing by your statement, "Did I receive a better education than my online peers? Absolutely! And no one will convince me otherwise."?

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