What is MSN - leadership and management track

  1. I'm exploring graduate degrees and I'd like to know if anyone has done the MSN leadership and management track and what areas will a degree like this help me in my career? Management? most manager/DON I see have Nurse executive degrees so I don't know where the MSN in management falls in the hierarchy . Do nursing with these degrees get higher paying jobs? do any choose to remain on floors? any clinical aspects at all to this degree or only management stuff. Why choose this as opposed to an MBA? I mean how marketable will I be and is demand high in your area?
    Last edit by ArrowRN on Jan 25, '16
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  2. 16 Comments

  3. by   klone
    What is a nurse executive degree? Are you sure you don't mean the nurse executive certification?

    Yes, the MSN-Leadership is very marketable if you want to become a nurse manager or director. If you want a CNO job, then a business degree IN ADDITION to at least a MSN would be helpful (particularly if the facility is Magnet, which requires nursing directors and above to have at least an MSN - an MBA cannot be substituted).
  4. by   ArrowRN
    I dont know that is why i asking questions. I refering to NE-BC on their badges, i guess that is a certification. I only 1 year as a RN, I got my BSN.How does one know if they cut out to be a nurse manager? What can I do as floor nurse to find out...should i apply for charge nurse and see how i do?
  5. by   klone
    Yes, NE-BC is a certification, not a degree.

    Being charge nurse is a good way of getting a feel for a leadership position, but I would recommend being a nurse longer than a year before volunteering for the role (sometimes nurses are drafted into the role, though). A charge nurse is a resource for the unit. The CN should be able to do every nursing role in the unit, and should know all the answers to any question asked. If s/he doesn't know the answer, s/he knows where to find it. It takes much longer than a year to get to that level of proficiency (if you're not already familiar with Benner's "Novice to Expert" nursing theory, I highly recommend reading about it).

    But yes, charge nurse is a good way of getting a feel for whether you're cut out for leadership. One common mistake of leadership, though, is that being excellent at being a NURSE does not automatically mean you would be good at being a NURSE LEADER.
  6. by   ArrowRN
    I just feel need to do more hence reason for exploring grad school degrees.
  7. by   ArrowRN
    Hi klone, we were all thought Benner's in nursing school, but like all theories its just that.... a theory. In the real world there are many people some of who may take longer or some who may take quicker at reaching so called "expert" level. It's really an individual thing, not something that can be predicted by a book. Some college grads can come right out of school and successfully lead the biggest cooporations, some cannot. Its all debatable but thats the real world

    Edit:
    Also according to Benners once you switch roles you start over as a novice so even if I had 20 years as a floor nurse and be expert, if I switch to management I'll be back to being a novice. One role doesn't necessarily help with attainment as expert in another role.
    Last edit by ArrowRN on Jan 27, '16
  8. by   klone
    Uh, okay.

    Let's put it this way, it's hard to garner respect as a charge nurse when you're essentially still a new nurse, period.
    Last edit by klone on Jan 27, '16
  9. by   NanikRN
    Quote from klone
    Uh, okay.

    Let's put it this way, it's hard to garner respect as a charge nurse when you're essentially still a new nurse, period.
    Yes

    some learning only comes with experience
  10. by   elkpark
    Quote from ArrowRN
    Some college grads can come right out of school and successfully lead the biggest cooporations ...
    Really? Do you have any actual examples of that happening?
  11. by   CMartRN
    I graduated with my MSN - Leadership and Management a year ago. The L & M program at my school focused mostly on the administrative aspects that support nursing from micro to macro. Everything from acuity based staffing, to designing your own unit based off of hours per patient day, all the way to some surface level payer mix calculations. We also had some research and statistics thrown in as well. This is a great degree if you plan on remaining within nursing for your career as it builds on your knowledge of patient care delivery as a clinician. If you think you'll want to broaden your career scope outside of nursing into general healthcare, I would recommend a Masters in Health Admin or and MBA program with a focus on healthcare. Both of those more more business/operations focused. You'll also have a leg up on your classmates in those programs - regarding healthcare - as most folks in those areas normally have business backgrounds with little healthcare experience.

    I had only been a nurse for a little over a year when I started my MSN program, so I know where you're coming from. The main advice that I would give you is to speak with your current superiors Nurse Manager, Administrative Director, head of Nursing education, even your CNO if you get the chance. Let them know that you're interested in pursuing a career in nursing management. This will serve a couple of purposes. First, it will show these individuals that you are serious about your career and invested in nursing. It will also show that you aren't afraid to take initiative. With nurse turnover on the rise, most nursing administrators are very keen on developing nursing leadership talent. Next, develop working relationships with your superiors because the single most valuable aspect of any L & M program is being able to intern/precept with current administrators. It's very hard to get a manager/director/administrator to precept you if they have no clue who you are. Lastly, don't rush it. The advice given by the nurses above was correct. I somewhat rushed my way through school and took the first healthcare managerial position I was offered. I now work very little with nursing and am clearly a fish out of water.

    All in all, going back to school while your still a young nurse isn't a bad thing. You're not too far removed from the mindset of a student and will be able to ease back into the role of student better than some of your more seasoned counter parts. Also, you're less likely to have a lot of hindrances to your school/work schedule (spouse, children, etc). However, don't be afraid to take it slow. There's nothing wrong with getting your MSN while working as a charge nurse then slowly working into a lower level managerial position for a couple of years post graduation. Hope this helps.
  12. by   ArrowRN
    Quote from elkpark
    Really? Do you have any actual examples of that happening?
    Uh Mark Zukerburg owner of facebook...oh and Bill Gates, Steve jobs, and Michael dell the owner of Dell.. Just to name a few Well none even had management degrees in fact no degrees all college drop outs
  13. by   ArrowRN
    CmartRN thanks for explanation, i'll be 40 soon so i see no sense in waiting till i in my 50's to get an advanced degree. If i do start now it will be parttime, i got a life...sorta...and it'll be at least 3 or 4 yrs to complete anyways by then I'll have 5 yrs experience anyways, which is agreeable to what the other poster said I needed. Looking at all the RN degrees I not sure if NP is for me, i seem to take interest in management or education.
  14. by   elkpark
    Quote from ArrowRN
    Uh Mark Zukerburg owner of facebook...oh and Bill Gates, Steve jobs, and Michael dell the owner of Dell.. Just to name a few Well none even had management degrees in fact no degrees all college drop outs
    Those people all started small start-up companies that grew over time, and the individuals grew with the companies. Your statement was that "some college grads can come right out of school and successfully lead the biggest co(r)porations." Do you have any examples of any college graduates successfully leading large corporations fresh out of school?

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