Half Question/Half Pet Peeve

[roser13]

This is a sincere question and not an intention to flame.

Why are we seeing threads (yes, multiple) from male pre-nursing or pre-CNA students asking (in essence) how many advantages & benefits they will attain simply because they are of the male gender? These posts commonly carry an "what am I entitled to?" sentiment that just puts me over the edge.

Seriously, is it "out there" that all male applicants to an historically female profession can pretty much count on magical admission rates to school and rapid promotion rates while employed?

Adding to my distress at this trend are the nurses who respond positively to these threads:

"Yes, our elderly patients really have a higher respect for male CNA's/nurses. They always think they're doctors!"

"Yes! We can use you on the Lift Team!"

"Yes, we like working with male nurses more than we like working with female nurses because they don't gossip!"

"All the male nurses in my unit get promoted quickly to management."

I guess I've pretty much answered my own question. If we (current nurses) are encouraging male nursing applicants by promoting how "special" they will be, it's no wonder that the word is out there that the nursing field is ripe for male exploitation.

Which essentially.........depresses me.

[middleager]

And that is the double standard I was referring to. Affirmative action is needed and justified for females to rectify the past but it is wrong for males. Of course at one time males were discouraged or prevented from becoming nurses, during WWII for example. Females have not been barred from engineering schools but like nursing the disparity was great so they have done numerous "affirmative action" efforts to increase. There are numerous fields that were ignored by females because it was male dominated not because they were barred that have taken efforts to increase diversity. Diversity is either good or bad, it isn't good or bad depending on who is on which side. Societal stigma and pressure can have the same affect as "barring" as many minorities can attest. At some point one has to look at the present and stop justifying on the past. The benefits of diversity are not just for the provider, it is for patients as well. I would contend patients would benefit more from the diversity than providers. Improving diversity for the benefit of all involved should be the focus, not the gender of those who may benefit. Saying only females not males deserve consideration for this is about as sexist as saying being "catty" is a female only trait or that "males are better suited to ascend to management". Defining right or wrong, entitled or not, qualified or not by gender, race, religion is wrong, it always has been, but hopefully we understand that. It is harder to recognize on those not traditionally viewed as "minorities".

[dudette10, MSN, RN]

Middleager, you are being disingenuous if you believe that women and men hold the same perspective on single gender-dominated jobs. There is a difference between society not letting you in and society telling you that a job is beneath you.

[middleager]

dudette if we were talking about the past I would agree with you 100%. I have two grown daughters, while I witnessed sexism to the point where I took my corporate attorney to a school board meeting to explain title 9 to them I can confidently say neither have been banned from a job due to gender. I have been married to the same wonderful woman for 35 years and knew her for 5 before that. I know she has never been barred from entering a job because she was female, that became illegal many years before my wife entered the workforce. Other than some special circumstances such as military combat I don't know of any occupation that bars either gender (and the combat prohibition is changing). It has been illegal to discriminate on the basis of gender for several generations. On the other hand affirmative action has been and as per the case with U of M Med, is still practiced. It is much more likely that someone in the workforce and especially those seeking employment today would experience affirmative action than being barred. I think it is disingenuous to claim women today need affirmative action to address the fact that they have been barred from employment due to their gender. There comes a point where the past is the past and we must live in the present. This is not to diminish the tremendous wrongs of the past, but to claim they justify sexism and a double standard today is looking for justification rather than equality. The challenges a female entering a male dominated profession, and a male entering a female dominated profession today are much more alike than they are different. Agreed in the past that was not the case.

[HouTx, BSN, MSN, EdD]

How about this? I'm a Male in an ALL FEMALE unit. I chose NICU because I enjoy taking care of the little ones. So far in 99% of the units I've worked on I've been the only male or only straight male (Not saying that's an issue, but sometimes the female nurses view them as just one of the girls). For the most part the girls are fine and easy to get along with; However, you do run into the bitter crowd, or those that feel men shouldn't be in their unit. I have yet to work my way into management. I'm wrapping up my BSN next month after 6 years of ADN nursing. I'm finally sick and tired of the cattiness in the hospital and I'm leaving to move into case management on the outside world. I'm starting grad school at the end of the summer to get my FNP so I can hopefully have some freedom in a practice - I know there's still drama/BS but it will be a different type.

No, I haven't seen men get favoritism (then I've usually been the only one). There is big time discrimination and cattiness towards men in the units where you're the only one. There are some women who find it nice to have a man in the group, but more times than not the number that don't want a man there are the majority. So no, guys, it's not a cakewalk.

So, we're "girls", but you are "men" . . . nope, no bias there.

[middleager]

Does anyone else feel like breaking out in a round of the song "Why can't we be friends, why can't we be friends". Bias is wrong, that simple, always was, always will be,

[Wile E Coyote, ASN, RN]

So, we're "girls", but you are "men" . . . nope, no bias there.

I'm not the argumentative type, but I'd like to point out that the fact that this was your only takeaway point of his worthy of a mention suggests a healthy bias of your own. Not looking to pick back and forth, just asking the collective "you" to re-read that original post and SEE what else lies within. The Talmud perhaps said it best " We do not see things as they are, we see them as we are"

[middleager]

I have to agree, I find focusing on semantics to be a reach, terms like the "good old boys", "old boys club" etc are used all the time. I do however have to agree referring to women as "catty" or equating "drama" to females as if it is exclusive does fit the bill of sexist. not all drama is created by females any more than aggressive behavior is owned by males. Not sure what the masculine term for this behavior is but it exists with or without a label.