Finally a Nurse Manager That Does NOT Tolerate Nurses Eating Their Young

[OnlybyHisgraceRN]

It was a breath of fresh air when I interviewed for a RN internship and the NM told be she does not tolerate bullying or nurses eating their young.

My mouth almost dropped as she spoke those words, as I never seen a manager feel so strongly against it.

She went onto say that she have fired a few nurses who were bullies, even though they were very competent as nurses.

I wish more NM had this attitude. I just don't see why it is so hard to come in, do our job, and keep the peace. I don't come to work to make friends, however I also don't come expecting to have to constantly defend myself from immature, catty, coworkers on a daily basis.

Obviously, we have so many personalities in nursing and there are times when people are having a bad day. However, people need to think a few seconds before saying things out of their mouths. Not sure why this is so hard to do.

Seems like this NM gets it. Maybe if more managers hold nurses more accountable for their actions we will see less bullying in the work place.

[mazy]

Agree with others that there are some red flags there. First, the NM is admitting that bullying takes place on the unit; which means that it has reached a level where management is concerned about losing staff, probably because they've had staff leave.

Talk and implementation are two different things. It's one thing to say that it won't be tolerated, but unless there are some clear guidelines on what specifically will not be tolerated, the response of management will be based on their own subjective interpretation of events, and managers do not work in a vacuum -- they are accountable to many more powerful personalities who may have a stake in supporting certain policies and staff members.

So when it comes to ousting entrenched staff I can see a lot of obstacles to that actually happening.

I also agree that there are many differences of opinion on what "bullying" means. We see it all the time on this site that people complain of being bullied when actually they are just ticked off that they aren't being treated with kid gloves.

I see a NM being overwhelmed with complaints from staff members who may or may not be victims of bullying, who may just hate their jobs, or who may be bullies themselves. Good luck sorting that mess out any time in the next century.

I have also seen plenty of managers say bullying will not be tolerated who then become bullies themselves.

I agree that the best way to approach the problem is not to lay down a zero tolerance policy but to build up and support staff so that they thrive and do well and are satisfied with their jobs and support and respect each other.

The way most facilities are managed, with short staffing, unmanageable patient loads, and poor orientation/compensation, that strategy simply won't work. It takes a real dedication to promoting happy nurses and good working conditions to create a better environment and facilities just don't want to put in the time, effort, and money.

Also, can we please, for the love of mercy, please eradicate the term "nurses eating their young." We are all mature, grown ups here, let's use grown up words. Lateral violence is a good start.

[Good Morning, Gil]

If she actually is implementing what she told you, that's probably because she experienced it herself at some point or saw some people burn out quickly from toxic units in the past. There's usually one or two gossip queens or people that enjoy feeding rumors or even bullying, but so long as it's not most nurses that behave like that, then you can have a positive work environment. That kind of stuff is everywhere, though, because mean-spirited people (to put it nicely) are everywhere (luckily, it's not the majority :)).

The reason why it's more blatant in nursing is because it's still a female-dominated career, and because nursing relies on teamwork, and reporting off to other nurses. In many jobs, the individual is responsible for his own work, and what doesn't get done, is still their responsibility the next day. In nursing, that's not the case, 24 hour job, and some nurses will just be crabby because they know their assignment is going to suck, and looking for a scapegoat. Don't take it personally if it does happen, not worth your time or energy.

[paddlelady, BSN, RN]

I hope that this NM does not abuse her power. It is very easy to use Bullying as a pretext to fire someone that this NM may have other reasons.

I would watch my back with this manager until she gains your respect and trust. I am wondering if this is even ethical for her to discuss this in an interview. If it was not an interview maybe she was setting boundaries. I am not being critical this just leaves me a little raw with her statement. Guess I have had to be present to hear how she stated these comments. I do agree that bullying in the medical setting or anywhere should not be tolerated.

Paddlelady

[SuperStarRN]

I wish I could write a book on my experiences with the bullies that I worked with for 2 years. Some people might be amazed at the stories I would tell.

[Orca, ADN, ASN, RN]

I discovered long ago that there are worse things than a vacant position. I have let nurses go for a variety of reasons, and this is one of them. I have no tolerance for people who can't play well with others. The job is tough enough on its own without us making it more complicated.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

i will tell you straightup, my goal is to be a nurse manager in the near future. once i achieve this goal the bullies and rude nurses etc etc had better shape up or i will ship them out.

come back in a few years and let us know how that works out for you. bullying and rudeness are subjective judgements rather than objective, and often exist only in the mind of the beholder. you're going to need to consider that aspect of it if you want to be able to staff your unit.

[Erikadawn RN]

There are 2 nurses at my job who are bullies. I don't have a problem with them, because I have had to fall into the stereotype of, a black female with an attitude. I don't like that role , but I refuse to be bullied. I often find my self tell the new nurses, to speak up for them selves. Management, act like it doesn't go on. But we have lost some of the nicest and sweetest nurses, who simply got tired and left.

[OnlybyHisgraceRN, ASN, RN]

Agree with others that there are some red flags there. First, the NM is admitting that bullying takes place on the unit; which means that it has reached a level where management is concerned about losing staff, probably because they've had staff leave.

Talk and implementation are two different things. It's one thing to say that it won't be tolerated, but unless there are some clear guidelines on what specifically will not be tolerated, the response of management will be based on their own subjective interpretation of events, and managers do not work in a vacuum -- they are accountable to many more powerful personalities who may have a stake in supporting certain policies and staff members.

So when it comes to ousting entrenched staff I can see a lot of obstacles to that actually happening.

I also agree that there are many differences of opinion on what "bullying" means. We see it all the time on this site that people complain of being bullied when actually they are just ticked off that they aren't being treated with kid gloves.

I see a NM being overwhelmed with complaints from staff members who may or may not be victims of bullying, who may just hate their jobs, or who may be bullies themselves. Good luck sorting that mess out any time in the next century.

I have also seen plenty of managers say bullying will not be tolerated who then become bullies themselves.

I agree that the best way to approach the problem is not to lay down a zero tolerance policy but to build up and support staff so that they thrive and do well and are satisfied with their jobs and support and respect each other.

The way most facilities are managed, with short staffing, unmanageable patient loads, and poor orientation/compensation, that strategy simply won't work. It takes a real dedication to promoting happy nurses and good working conditions to create a better environment and facilities just don't want to put in the time, effort, and money.

Also, can we please, for the love of mercy, please eradicate the term "nurses eating their young." We are all mature, grown ups here, let's use grown up words. Lateral violence is a good start.

I agree with you with many things except for the fact that it is a red flag that bullying exists on the unit. That is not a red flag to me as I know that there is lateral violence almost everything. This NM simply made a comment that she has a zero tolerance for it. I rather for a NM to be upfront and honest about it then to not say anything. How is that a red flag? Just curious. I also hate the term " eating young" but that was the term this NM used and many people use on this site. I think "eating" nurses happens at all levels. You have "know it all new grads" to seasoned nurses who came out the womb with a stethoscope around their neck !

At the end of the day I think we need to all evaluate ourselves and to think about what we say or do and how it may affect someone else. I appreciate assertive and direct nurses very much. I believe there is a place in nursing for everyone's personality. However, deliberately going out of your way to be physically or verbally aggressive to another employee should be grounds for write up and/or termination. Don't think this happens, it does. I worked with a nurse that physically and verbally bullied me. It took my complaints along with 5 other nurses and aides to finally have this nurse terminated. It should not even have go this far.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

bullying is bullying. i don't think the nm is talking about nurses who are assertive, as she appears assertive. she is talking about nurses who are truly bullies. how can it be wrongful termination when most employers can terminate you for any cause? once again, if the nm documents each case of bullying and show that attempts to correct a nurses' behavior have been made then i don't see how anyone could sue.

"bullying" is a term that is thrown around pretty indiscriminately these days. many seem to believe that any negative interaction constitutes "bullying," and any attempt to correct them is lateral violence. much of what new grads consider to be be bullying is merely an attempt to correct their errors in practice . . . possibly not the best "customer service" skills in the correction, but a honest attempt to help the new grad. i'd be hesitant to work for a manager who declared war on "bullying" unless she was more specific about how she defined bullying and what she did to correct it.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

double post

[OnlybyHisgraceRN, ASN, RN]

come back in a few years and let us know how that works out for you. bullying and rudeness are subjective judgements rather than objective, and often exist only in the mind of the beholder. you're going to need to consider that aspect of it if you want to be able to staff your unit.

i agree, that bullying is very subjective and i can imagine hard to prove. ofcourse there are the really dumb bullies that will bully in the presence of others, then you have witnesses. i've seen nurses bullied and i was the first to testify.

[Over-the-hill-Nurse]

Sorry guys-comment was for a different post. Having said that, I am like others, saying it and doing it is two entirely different things. I have had some really great NM and then I have also had the not so great NM. Talk is cheap. Actions speak volumes. Zero policies are a must in the work place and should be enforced from the top to the bottom. Lateral violence should not be tolerated anywhere in the work place.