Do Nurses Eat Their Young?

[Brian]

We have all heard the saying "Nurses eat their young". Do you feel this is true?

Please feel free to read and post any comments that you have right here in this discussion

Thanks.

This article sums it up for me... ?

http://www.dcardillo.com/articles/eatyoung.html

Quote

This vile expression implies that experienced nurses do not treat new nurses kindly. My first problem with the statement is that it’s a generalization implying that all nurses are like that. Interestingly, whenever I hear someone utter the expression, I always say, “I don’t do that. Do you?” The person making the statement always says, “Oh no, I don’t, but many others do.” I’ve never heard even one nurse own up to doing this, although some nurses are willing to indict the entire profession. Every time that statement is repeated, it causes harm and casts a dark shadow on every nurse. Say anything enough, and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

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Please note that by moderator consensus some of the "Nurses Eat Their Young" posts will be referred to this thread where there can be an ongoing discussion, rather than several threads saying the same thing.

To students and new grads that are having problems with nurses, please take a moment to read the above link. Is it really the entire profession, every single nurse, or do you need help with one or a few nurses? We will be glad to help you in dealing with those people, but let bury the phrase "Nurses Eat Their Young".

To experienced nurses who claim our profession eats it's young, please take a moment to read it as well and think about it. Also take time to teach, be friendly and nurturing to the new nurse and students on your unit.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

as a new nurse, i have to say that i have definitely encountered this! a lot of nurses are great mentors and have the patience and understanding to lend a helping hand or 'verify' something that a newbie is questioning. but....i have had a seasoned nurse look at me as if i had two heads when i asked her to step in the room while i suctioned my patient to make sure i was doing it properly. i was working on a cardiac unit, still in orientation, and had never suctioned a patient before. she looked wide-eyed at me and said "what do you mean you've never suctioned a patient?" and shook her head, sighed, and practically threw her hands in the air. it wasn't even that i was pulling her away from 'busy' work, she was supposed to be overseeing me that day. granted, it is extremely easy, but when attempting something for the first time, anyone can be nervous.

i have been in positions of authority before and would never treat someone who was trying to learn in that way. at least i asked to be 'double-checked' when doing a new task, and didn't just go in and wing it.

i just don't see how that one interaction with a more experienced nurse was "eating her young." it could be any one of a number of other things, including her reaction to an annoying attitude or behavior on your part. every interaction you don't like does not constitute "being eaten."

[Elarso46]

I searched bing.com for the phrase "Do nurses still eat their young" and the amount of information/forums on this topic is overwhelming. I am 4 weeks away from graduating nursing school, and chose the topic for a paper I have to write. Most every comment I've read in this thread (50+) has been at least passionate on each persons view. As a student nurse, and PCA on a very busy cardiac unit I can say with experience, and whole heartedly, that while not EVERY nurse, or even MOST nurses live out this "mantra", there most certainly are PLENTY that do that keep this mantra alive. I have experienced this "phenomenon" as a student, and employee and seen first hand a charge nurse whose been with a unit for 15+ years, degrade, and embarass a younger nurse (6+years) because said charge nurse had to get off her orifice and do something more than sit at the nurses station ordering people around. Honestly. I am not joking. I saw one of my co-workers refuse to coassign with a student nurse! WHY!?!?!? Why would you refuse to allow a student nurse to work along side you with your patient assignment on a 12 hour shift? But then as a seasoned nurse you want to throw your nose in the air and act like all of us novice nurses are idiots? Please. Please. Please. Tell me then, how many of you have said something to the effect of "new nurses have no idea what its really like out here and have so much learning to do" but a seasoned nurse wants to scoff at the idea of TEACHING SOMEONE? There is only so much you can learn in school, and only so much theory is retained with no PRACTICE or real life relevence to apply it to. Clinical time is often spent with low acuity patients because instructors and seasoned nurses prefer not to put their license on the line to teach a student, but again I will say, you SCOFF at the pretense that A: new nurses need to learn and B: you may have to be the one that teaches them. Give me a break. I am a PCA. I am the one for 12+ hours a day being EVERYONES *****. I answer to call bells, to patients, to family members, to visitors, to doctors, and most certainly to ALL the nurses on my floor. I run around with a smile on my face, and turn my nose up in disgust at PCA's who think they are above the act of wiping orifice's and giving baths. I have an entire floor to look after because much like the nursing profession, the PCA's on my floor are short staffed and if more than one of us is scheduled someone is always pulled to a new floor, because how dare we think we need more than one PCA to assist nurses for the 20+ patients on the floor. And let me tell you, if I'm late on chemstrips or VS, or can't get to a bell immediately and may need assistance from a nurse to actually answer a call bell, its my head on the chopping block, and that nurse that sits all day at the nurses station and pretends to be superior because shes been working for a billion years, shes the one running the guillitine (spelling?). So to all of you that would like to pretend that this is not a nursing phenomenon, but happens everywhere, or that its not true at all. Get over it. It is true, and it directly relates to nursing. The nursing profession is stressful, time consuming, and exhausting. And instead of embracing the idea of teaching someone HOW to help and be of use to you or relying on one another to get through the day, the first people who are lashed out on are the new nurses that may have a question to ask or need help doing something. I'm sorry. I don't mean to be rude. But get the hell over yourselves and start MENTORING rather than lashing out.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

i searched bing.com for the phrase "do nurses still eat their young" and the amount of information/forums on this topic is overwhelming. i am 4 weeks away from graduating nursing school, and chose the topic for a paper i have to write. most every comment i've read in this thread (50+) has been at least passionate on each persons view. as a student nurse, and pca on a very busy cardiac unit i can say with experience, and whole heartedly, that while not every nurse, or even most nurses live out this "mantra", there most certainly are plenty that do that keep this mantra alive. i have experienced this "phenomenon" as a student, and employee and seen first hand a charge nurse whose been with a unit for 15+ years, degrade, and embarass a younger nurse (6+years) because said charge nurse had to get off her orifice and do something more than sit at the nurses station ordering people around. honestly. i am not joking. i saw one of my co-workers refuse to coassign with a student nurse! why!?!?!? why would you refuse to allow a student nurse to work along side you with your patient assignment on a 12 hour shift? but then as a seasoned nurse you want to throw your nose in the air and act like all of us novice nurses are idiots? please. please. please. tell me then, how many of you have said something to the effect of "new nurses have no idea what its really like out here and have so much learning to do" but a seasoned nurse wants to scoff at the idea of teaching someone? there is only so much you can learn in school, and only so much theory is retained with no practice or real life relevence to apply it to. clinical time is often spent with low acuity patients because instructors and seasoned nurses prefer not to put their license on the line to teach a student, but again i will say, you scoff at the pretense that a: new nurses need to learn and b: you may have to be the one that teaches them. give me a break. i am a pca. i am the one for 12+ hours a day being everyones *****. i answer to call bells, to patients, to family members, to visitors, to doctors, and most certainly to all the nurses on my floor. i run around with a smile on my face, and turn my nose up in disgust at pca's who think they are above the act of wiping orifice's and giving baths. i have an entire floor to look after because much like the nursing profession, the pca's on my floor are short staffed and if more than one of us is scheduled someone is always pulled to a new floor, because how dare we think we need more than one pca to assist nurses for the 20+ patients on the floor. and let me tell you, if i'm late on chemstrips or vs, or can't get to a bell immediately and may need assistance from a nurse to actually answer a call bell, its my head on the chopping block, and that nurse that sits all day at the nurses station and pretends to be superior because shes been working for a billion years, shes the one running the guillitine (spelling?). so to all of you that would like to pretend that this is not a nursing phenomenon, but happens everywhere, or that its not true at all. get over it. it is true, and it directly relates to nursing. the nursing profession is stressful, time consuming, and exhausting. and instead of embracing the idea of teaching someone how to help and be of use to you or relying on one another to get through the day, the first people who are lashed out on are the new nurses that may have a question to ask or need help doing something. i'm sorry. i don't mean to be rude. but get the hell over yourselves and start mentoring rather than lashing out.

whew! an awful lot of venom in your post for someone who really doesn't have any idea what she doesn't know.

the phrase "nurses eat their young" is a handy excuse for anyone to grasp at when they're having difficulty getting along with their new peers. it's a whole lot better than saying "they don't like me because i'm a know-it-all" or "i can't figure out what i'm doing wrong," usually accompanied by some excuse such as the notion that her extreme pulchritude or great figure or superior education make them all jealous. every field is difficult to enter, and there probably are few fields who don't contain newbies feeling "eaten." it's rarely because of the superior education or extreme good looks of the newbie. usually it has more to do with the notion that they're entitled -- to a seasoned nurse's full time and attention, to christmas off, to work more days than nights and to escape any weekend duties. nothing will gain a newbie more ill will than the perception that the newbie considers herself above such realities of nursing.

you may have observed a charge nurse dressing down a 6 year nurse, and it should not have happened in public. but you don't really have any clue why it happened despite the whispers around the nurse's station that the charge nurse "didn't want to get up off her orifice". unless you're one of the two parties involved, you have no idea of the history. it may be that the younger nurse makes a practice of leaving some of her work for others to do and the charge was getting sick of it. it may be that the younger nurse spent the past thirty minutes needling the charge nurse about one thing or another and the charge nurse snapped back. it may be that one of them is sleeping with the other's husband, or even that the charge nurse is just unhappy and burned out. without in depth knowledge of the history, you cannot with any accuracy announce that it was anything other than a disagreement between colleagues. what it was not is "young eating."

then there is the notion held dear by so many new nurses, student nurses and wannabes that they are a help to the unit and that therefore every senior nurse ought to be delighted to have them for a day and even worse that the newbie is somehow entitled to a big welcome and mentorship by any nurse who happens to be on shift that day. sheer courtesy dictates a friendly "hello" and directions to the locker room, of course. but any student or new nurse who doesn't double or triple my workload is a miracle to behold. the nurse who refused may not have been up to that particular stressor on that particular day. maybe she was tired from working 16 hours the day before or working five consecutive 12-hour shifts. maybe she was upset because her primary patient just died, her teenaged son just crashed the car or her husband was laid off. maybe she knew she wasn't able to give her best both to her patients and the newbie and elected to spare the newbie from having to develop carpal tunnel syndrome running to the internet to complain about her awful preceptor. whatever the reason, that nurse didn't owe that student anything. the fact that she refused the student rather than give her less than her best speaks well for the nurse.

as an experienced nurse, i can tell you unequivocally that we all know the new nurses need experience, need teaching, need support. some of us enjoy the challenge, and others don't but are dragged into the experience kicking and screaming but trying to give it our best anyway. and others, for whatever reason, just can't do it this day or this week or even this year. and that ought to be ok.

and while i'm on the topic, let's dispense with this assumption that new nurses need to be taught. new nurses need to learn, yes. but spoonfeeding the knowledge does very little to "teach". new nurses will need to spend some of their time off studying for their job. i've had to do it as a new nurse, every time i've changed specialties and to a lessor extent, every time i've changed jobs. i hate hearing the newbies cry "but no one ever taught me that" when it was written in black and white that they were responsible to learn it. if you don't know how to start ivs, it's up to you to learn how if your job requires it. watch the best iv sticks on your unit, ask them for tips, practice in the skills lab or on athletic male patients with fabulous veins, whatever you need to do. but it's up to you to learn the skill, not up to someone else to teach it.

it is as much up to you to make yourself someone who can be (and is pleasant to be) mentored as it is up to us to mentor you. if you make yourself unpleasant to the senior nurses, you'll have a less than stellar mentoring experience. students or new grads who come in with a sense of entitlement, with the idea that they already know it all or the idea that their presence is actually helping someone rather than making that other nurse's day exponentially more stressful are not easy or pleasant to mentor and will miss out on a lot.

until you've actually been a nurse and had the responsibility, you have no idea the trillion other things that nurse is accomplishing while she "sits at the nurse's station." when you graduate, hopefully you'll be able to learn. but suffice it to say that you are there to make the nurse's jobs less impossible; they're not there to help you out.

[kcmylorn]

Ruby- I whole heartedly agree.

That ever present sense of entitlement!! Where in the god's name did this sence of entitlement come from in these younger generations. Did they not see their own parents working their way up from an entry level position. Why do the young nurses think the nursing profession is any different. What are nursing students taught in these schools now a days. I find that whole long senerio disturbing- It's all about "me" attitude. Young nurses need to come out of the 'Me' frame of reference- it's time to grow up! Look at the feeling and sense of responsibilty that senior nurse FEELS and when you actually LEARN your skill it would bewho of you to have adopted that level of sense of responsibility along the way. The PCA is not the one with the ultimate responsibilty- the RN is.

I'm a 55 yr old RN with 30 yrs of bedside experience in a variey of specialities- I feel I'm 'entitled' to a full time job because of those 30 yrs- Instead I have to take temporary crap low paying jobs, because of this recession and employers taking advantage of it, that have landed me in bankruptcy after 30 yr of pounding my my feet on those concrete floors- how's that for a sense of entitlement- kid! Stop your whinning.

"Get hell over yourselves and start mentoring"- that's sounds like attitude to me! Save this tone for your mothers.