Critically ill pts wanting to go AMA?

Nurses Relations

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I will not go into many specifics but basically I had a critically ill patient who wanted to leave AMA, but expected the nursing staff to help him/her out to a taxi. This person had an unresolved medical issue that obviously warranted critical care, had many invasive lines, was alert and oriented enough at this point to say he/she wanted to go home but was physically incapable of doing so. No family to carry her out. Just us.

So, yeah, sticky situation!

I understand that every patient has the right to leave AMA, but what happens if the exit involves way more than just signing an AMA form and walking out? What if the hospital staff, who believe that it would be in this patient's best interest to leave, seem to have to participate in the patient leaving? What if I loaded this person onto a wheelchair and something happens between my unit and the lobby?

What do you do these situations? Have you encountered this situation in your career? What does your hospital have to say about situations like these?

Thanks guys!

Someone mentioned that legally, an AMA signed by a competent patient is sufficient protection for your licence. Personally, I would document as well that I discussed death and morbidity with the patient.

To me what is interesting is the discussion of moral obligations, beyond wwhat is the minimal legal requirement. Obviously this is a big part of the discussion because most of us are uneasy with the scenario even when the legality of it is clear.

The question I ponder is what is the difference between a pt who threatening suicide and the septic pt going AMA home to a certain death. Ultimately, both will die without intervention, but only one is routinely placed on an involuntary hold. Why is that?

Yes, yes, yes!

This topic has been really pinging around in my brain for these reasons. I can look up policies, laws, legal precedents etc. until I am blue in the face but at what point would I, personally, be morally obligated to help? I cannot imagine standing idly by while a critically-ill patient crawled around on the floor towards the door, no matter how oriented (but stupid) he or she is. But am I obligated by my hospital policies and laws protecting patients rights not to intervene? In some cases, yes. It's a heck of an ethical dilemma.

You raise a very interesting question about suicide and leaving AMA. Maybe the difference is that the rules are far less ambiguous in regards to threats of suicide and self-harm than refusal of medical treatment. The impending end result may be the same (serious injury or death), but there can be quite a difference between "I want to shoot myself in the head" and "I do not believe in Western medicine and I am going home" which could be one of the reasons why people leave AMA.

Just stabbing in the dark :)

Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.

Maybe the difference is that the rules are far less ambiguous in regards to threats of suicide and self-harm than refusal of medical treatment. The impending end result may be the same (serious injury or death), but there can be quite a difference between "I want to shoot myself in the head" and "I do not believe in Western medicine and I am going home" which could be one of the reasons why people leave AMA.

Just stabbing in the dark :)

I think you answered your question. ;)

AMAs are tricky; a person in crisis is much more acute in terms of intervention; as much as one who is critically ill is in crisis, you cannot stop them unless mentally they are unstable; I cannot stop someone who doesn't want to die in the hospital; that's like denying someome who wants to die on hospice.

Sometimes we have to be respectful of our pts wishes, their dignity so to speak; even if it looks vastly different than our own.

Specializes in Critical Care, Education.

Wow - grisly stories.

Hey - my first calls would be (and has been) to Risk Management & Admitting physician. I think we nurses tend to assume complete responsibility when we really shouldn't. There are some other great resources out there that we should be using more often -like Ethics Committee, Chaplain, etc. In the wonderfully immortal words of Dirty Harry "a man's gotta know his limitations".

Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.

The supervising nurse in the article lost his job and license because the patient was not alert and oriented. Other professional staff had concerns about the patient's ability to make coherent and safe decisions.

When in doubt always defer UP the food chain.

In my acute care days we were expected to get the person safely to the exit and obtain a cab for them if they had no transportation.

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