Absolutely ridiculous... You can keep your 4 hours

[HeartRN13]

What kind of hospital schedules you for a full 12 hour day shift, calls at 5am to cancel you from 7a-11a but tells you your on call from 11am on... And then decides that at 3 they will have you come in for the last 4 hours of ur scheduled shift to cover someone else's call out on a different floor? You bet I'll be the first to say no... If they felt they didn't need me for my scheduled 12 hour shift enough to call me off at 5am don't expect me to come in at 3pm for 4 hours

[PMFB-RN, RN]

I hear what you are saying I really do...however it is a very cost effective way of handling staffing fluctuations. It's not right to allow a patient to be boarded in the ED or hours either. The staffing is about the hospital and the patients.

I HATE doing staffing and calling people off. But it is a necessary evil. I get my ear chewed off on a regular basis by unhappy staff...... it takes me hours to figure who was last who is next, how many hours for each nurse. It sucks. The Union hospital I know has no mandatory cancel of nurses but you will work without aides (who do all phlebotomy)and unit secretaries.

How about if I handle unanticipated events personal life by calling the hospital and telling them I won't be in for the first 4 hours of my scheduled shift, but will call them later and let them know if it is convenient for me to come in for 8 or 4 hours today?

In another discussion we are talking about making it into work despite snow and ice. Unless actually too sick to work, (very rare) I come to work regardless of the weather. I come to work despite sick kids (my wife stays with them), despite anything happening in my life. I certainly would not feel that responsibility if my hospital did not return the responsibility to me.

[runningcrazy]

Your employer has to provide you with a staffing guidelines or a policy regarding how this process works. If there is no structured policy, you don't have a policy to comply with so there can be no negative outcome for you.

In my experience, in non-union facilities, there are staffing guidelines, and it is a mangers preference that can change daily how he/she feels the need to cancel staffing (like what is the budget doing, overtime?).

In union facilities, we were called off in four hour increments, with no on call pay. It was good knowing this in advanced, and every nurse was able to speak to this policy. We were also allowed to be mandated to work four extra hours before or after our assigned shifts. This part sucked, but I always had great staffing.

[BacktoBasics]

If that ever happened to me, you can be sure you would be written up. I working critical care, so if i need you to come in, I need you to come in. By not coming in, you're being unprofessional, disrespectful leaving the unit in a unsafe situation. I can't determine the census. The hospital can't determine the census. We only staff RN's based upon our average daily census. If you're called off, you have the option to use PTO, education hours (every staff have so many per year), choose another day that week to make it up or not get paid. In my hospital it's not just RN's that partake in this. RT, NA's, US's even managers do this to help the org stay on budget. You can try to make whatever examples you want about chandeliers but bottom line is hospital are a business that need to make money- whether you agree or not.

In past, staff have called out for 4 hours only. It's not recommended or common because you probably won't be needed for the rest of your shift since we just found coverage to cover your absence. It's the risk you take.

[wooh, BSN, RN]

In past, staff have called out for 4 hours only. It's not recommended or common because you probably won't be needed for the rest of your shift since we just found coverage to cover your absence. It's the risk you take.

So if hospital calls nurse off for 4 hours, nurse is screwed. If nurse calls of for four hours, nurse is screwed. Can you see where many of us don't find this to be a reciprocal agreement?

[PMFB-RN, RN]

If that ever happened to me, you can be sure you would be written up. I working critical care, so if i need you to come in, I need you to come in. By not coming in, you're being unprofessional, disrespectful leaving the unit in a unsafe situation.

To be clear, it is management's decision to treat their staff disrespectfully and unprofessionally that is causing the problem. If management schedules a nurse on a particular day then they should have them work, period.

I can't determine the census. The hospital can't determine the census. We only staff RN's based upon our average daily census.

Correction, the hospital has chosen to staff the hospital based on census. Maybe what management should be asking themselves is why is that hospitals with better, more skilled managers and administrators CAN afford to treat their employees professionally and respectfully and you can not?

If you're called off, you have the option to use PTO, education hours (every staff have so many per year), choose another day that week to make it up or not get paid.

You left out the better option, the one I used. I chose to look for, and go to work for a hospital where the managers are skilled and good at their jobs and don't need to resort to such tactics to make ends meet.

In my hospital it's not just RN's that partake in this. RT, NA's, US's even managers do this to help the org stay on budget.

But not physicians? Why is that? Maybe the better question you should be asking is, why is the hospital so mismanaged that such measures are required when other hospitals, who probably have good managers, don't need to resort to such tactics?

You can try to make whatever examples you want about chandeliers but bottom line is hospital are a business that need to make money- whether you agree or not.

I work for a publically owned, non profit hospital. However they do make a significant "profit" and have the money to stay up to date with technology, EBP, education, and treat their employees in a fair manner, and be a source of funds for the public entity that owns us. Maybe your hospital should attempt to hire some of the good managers we have.

Maybe it's because they don't squander funds on meaningless feel good projects like getting Magnet certified.

[runningcrazy]

I am not sure her facility uses this policy. Every hospital is different. I have worked at facilities where policy was if you were cancelled, you were cancelled for the entire day, others were in four hour increments.

[MidLifeRN2012]

I'm starting my first nursing job and some of this scares me

If you are hired full time and need that 40 hours paycheck to live how do you manage your finances? Does losing 4 hrs here allow you 4 extra hours sometime within the pay period to make it up ? How does it effect your benefits that are based on full time status?

I wouldn't mind being floated to another unit as a tech if it meant I can get paid.

Thanks

[lxpatterson]

With that kind of attitude, you better hope the nursing schools keep pumping out graduates to maintain the current employer's market. Hospitals and units can develop bad reputations, and once this nursing glut is over, people will vote with their feet. One of the major children's hospitals in Canada (non-unionized) has a reputation for treating their staff like crap, but also having the highest CEO pay of almost any hospital in the area. The new nurses I know go in there eyes open, most of them plan to go in for 2-5 years for the experience and education and then take off to grad school or another hospital. Retention is obviously a problem, but management won't pay attention until they lose too many senior staff and the whole place is staffed with smart but inexperienced new nurses, creating an unsafe environment.

I currently work in a small rural hospital and that kind of problem is already becoming evident. The province pays good bonuses and other inducements to attract young staff out into under-serviced rural areas, so having enough staff is not an issue. Since there are enough bodies, management feels like they have the upper hand, but that's not the case. Recently a spate of senior nurses have taken early retirement or are leaving because of issues with management, leaving the staff pool with a large proportion of inexperienced staff. That's unsafe. I hate working a shift with no >5 year nurse in the hospital. I am a new nurse, and I am smart enough to recognize the value in experience and knowledge my senior colleagues bring, why doesn't management? And this same phenomena is occurring with the medical staff also.

These kind of retention issues will only get worse until administration start respecting clinical staff.

[psu_213, BSN, RN]

I've never worked in a hospital where it didn't work this way (all of which were unionized).

Same for me (except none of "my" hospitals were unionized).

I agree that it stinks to get called off for 4 or 8 hours of a 12-hour shift. However, if unit census dictates that someone is called off at 7 am and the unit gets a bunch of admissions, then it is going to have to be on the scheduled staff to come in when needed. Like I said, it stinks, but it does actually make some sense.

[psu_213, BSN, RN]

But not physicians?

I don't want to start a big discussion on this part, but in out ER, physicians have been sent home for low census. I'm not sure how the affects the pay of those physicians...and, true, I have never seen them called off for part of their shift, but I have seen them "down staffed."