Male Nurses/female Patients

Cul2 · Jul 26, 2009

I might suggest that a patient, male or female, who insists on a same gender caregiver, is not

necessarily refusing care. Even if same gender care isn't available. Refusing care is one thing. Being uncomfortable

with the gender of the caregiver for certain personal procedures is something else. I would be

careful about documenting that the patient is refusing care unless you're certain that he or she is specifically

refusing care, not the gender of the caregiver.

CaDad · Dec 16, 2009

Putting my 2 cents in:

Well I have 2 sons and a daughter Lesi and I can promise you my sons, their friends, and my daughter want nothing to do with the opposite sex in intimate situations like choices of Nurses or Doctors for that matter. The homophobia issues is something I think has gone the way of the Dinosaur. I have never met anyone for that matter that would not want to have a choice , I think the notion of males not having modesty or privacy concerns are one of those myths perpetuated by the females-it is just not true . So you run into one or two males, it does not make for a universai fact ladies. Modesty is a human condition and it is a lot easier to generalize and tell everyone how androgynous you are when your the clothed individual in the discussion.

Litoos72, LPN · Dec 16, 2009

Personally, I feel a disadvantage to being a male nurse, in that every time there is a procedure involving a female patient, I'm not allowed to assist, expected instead to find a female nurse to assist. I find that ridiculous in that I'm never asked to be a part of a procedure involving a male patient. I understand the very subtle differences, but in the broad spectrum, it's the same discrimination. I think there is a lot of discussion that needs to happen on this subject. If I'm unable to perform my job based off of a gender bias, then one could say I'm being descrimated against. Period.

amigojack · Dec 17, 2009

my fellow nurses i do think it's because NURSING per se is a Female profession through History. We can see it in Nightingale's time and even other cultures. In China and Korea, Nurses are women. Male nurses seemed to be nowhere in their culture. Most people would assume doctors to be Men and nurses to be Women. DOCTORS need a leadership and authoritative role just as MEN needs to lead his subordinates and women are not placed in leadership positions in most cultures. It's even Biblical to have MEN as leaders rather than women.

I'm also an RN and male nurses in the Philippines are treated equal. I can perform procedures to female patients here =)

nursemike, ASN, RN · Dec 17, 2009

my fellow nurses i do think it's because NURSING per se is a Female profession through History. We can see it in Nightingale's time and even other cultures. In China and Korea, Nurses are women. Male nurses seemed to be nowhere in their culture. Most people would assume doctors to be Men and nurses to be Women. DOCTORS need a leadership and authoritative role just as MEN needs to lead his subordinates and women are not placed in leadership positions in most cultures. It's even Biblical to have MEN as leaders rather than women.
I'm also an RN and male nurses in the Philippines are treated equal. I can perform procedures to female patients here =)

Although these stereotypes exist to some extent, it has not always been the case. In the distant past, in at least some cultures, male nurses were the norm, with females being too "unclean" to attend the ill. Then, too, at least a fair portion of nursing care was battlefield care. Of course, it's also plausible, as my nursing school textbook suggested, that the first healers in prehistoric times were women, although I think it might be problematic whether to think of them as the first nurses or the first doctors. Thunderwolf's thread on the historical timeline gives a good synopsis of the role of men in nursing, historically.

topic · Jan 11, 2010

I'm interested in knowing if anyone has the issue of male nurses refusing to perform certain nursing functions simply because they are male. Having worked in a large teaching hospital and smaller community hospitals, there seems to be a huge difference. In the teaching hospital, male nurses did everything a patient needed, regardless of gender. In the smaller community hospitals, the male nurses sought out female nurses to take care of all manner of female patient's hygiene, all gyn exams ,and anything else a female patient needed. Have we become such a litigous society that we base our practice on gender? Do you find yourself taking care of your male colleagues patients as well as your own simply because they are afraid to touch their female patients?

I was shadowing a male aide and we were changing the bedpads for a woman w/ Alzheimer's while she was in bed. Suddenly she began to scream, "Help! He's raping me!" I was right there, and the male aide was not inappropriate in any way. Even though he knew the woman didn't mean it, or probably even remember screaming, it still bothered him. He kept saying the "what if's" What if I wasn't shadowing him that night. What if there was a co-worker that didn't like him and aggravated the situation. What if the charge nurse and family believed the resident.... The whole ordeal really upset and scared him.

twister431 · Jan 11, 2010

I do LTC so my approach is a little different I like to simply ask when it comes to hygeine that sort of thing. "Would you have a problem with me helping to get you ready for the night? If they say yes, I then ask a coworker. If they say yes and their body language says no I ask a coworker. If they say No that means no.

OutlawNurse86, BSN, RN · Jan 13, 2010

I've found that some patients don't care and some do. Alot of the time I'll get one of the female techs to do things for me, like place telemetry patches, female patients if I think the patient will be more comfortable with it.

On the flip side, I've had some patients (male), request a male nurse to assist with hygiene, because they don't want a woman in there when they are undressed.

Mostly though, it appears that the patients around here don't care or don't say anything.

lakemurray · Feb 2, 2010

I realize some people would disagree but this should have been reported and investigated. Maybe someone else is abusing this woman. Even the military has a policy in place that a Female caregiver. MD NP will not examine an unclothed male SM. Everytime a male takes care of a female unchaperoned he places his liberty at risk. This is not something new today. I saw it in psych 30 years ago witha female patient being restrained and accusing a male of rape. He was taken off patient care and the incident was reported to the DA's office. Certainly he was exonerated but this is not new. Every male should remember that all it takes is ONE accusation and your world can come tumbling down.

AlmostJesus · Feb 3, 2010

Unfortunately, as stated it is a touchy subject with really no correct answer.

Personally, I work as an EMT-B with our ambulance and as a Ward Clerk/Nurse Aide (not certified) at our local hospital. Our hospital is in a small town, so more often than not, we know our patients at least in some capacity. I am the first male to ever be employed on our nursing staff, which has made for a few complications. Generally, patients are receptive to having a male caregiver. Although, I have noticed that generally women prefer to have personal cares done by a female nurse. I will take a female patient to the bathroom and provide help or put them on the commode, but usually, I leave any wiping up to the patient and I usually step out for privacy. I will help them pull up their pants and such, but I generally don't get involved with anything more than that including bedpans. If the patient is confused, doesn't care for men, or is close in age to me, the female nurse will do it, or she will be in there too with me just helping.

As far as bathing goes, I generally get assigned to help the men in the shower and bath and generally, the nurses will bathe the females. There has been one exception, we were very busy one day and we had been putting the female patient's bath off because of it, and I was the only one available, and her daughter was there, so she agreed to stay with her and help her, and I just had to lift her in and out of the tub. The daughter and patient were both content with that. I felt more comfortable with that too, I, like many others, am afraid of accusations.

When I am doing 12-lead EKGs in the clinic, I will have the patient put a gown on and I can put the leads above and below the gown with no exposure of the breast, which most patients prefer.

Generally, I have found that the patients that have had to have the most hospital care are the most receptive to having a male care for them.

Just my two cents

notsoinocent88 · May 1, 2010

I am a male CNA going to school do further my education in the nursing field. I live in alabama and work at a local LTC facility a.k.a. nursing home where the majority of my residents are female. I personal feel very discriminated against when a female resident looks at me and states that I can't do my job because I'm a man. Just because my sex is male has nothing to with the type of care that I can provide. What is also upsetting about this discrimination is that it has a nice term called sexism. My facility has two halls front and back. Because of my sex the nursing home has also made the rule that I can't work on the back home because the resident's that stay/live on that hall are more assisted living and are (for the most part) in their right mind. Please let me be clear I get really offended when I'm told I can't give the care that I know I can provide sometimes better than my other co-workers and the resident would still rather have a female CNA.

Also, I think it is really upsetting that two males can't be in a resident room at the same time but two females can. This not only applies to the female resident but the males also.

And my last item that I would like to be stated is the hall that I work and provide my ADL care contains 24 rooms with 2 bed per room. At the time there are 43/48 of the beds occupied of which 7 are male and the rest (36) are female. Out of 36 females there is only one female resident that I can not preform personal care because she says " I'm a 100 year old grandmother and I need a female to come help me because I'm a 100 year old grandmother and I just can't have a man help me." Again this really hurts my feeling because there are other female residents that ask the nurse to assign me to their section because they state that I make sure they are comfortable and most importantly clean.

This brings me finally to the reason for the "I need a female nurse." requirement. These residents were brought up in a different time period and a different set of moral rules that have been enforced upon them by their parents and the society they enteracted with. And during that time it was unheard of for a male nurse doctor or otherwise to see them without clothes. Majority of the time if there was a feminine problem that required attention, females would usually go to their midwife. Which in the old days was usually the doctors wife. I know that most people are thinking that whenever you see a movie based in the late 1800's/ early to mid 1900's if the wife needed to give birth a doctor was called but if we would stop and really think about it. We learned in history that men had doctors and women had mid-wife's; however, exceptions were made if the conditon of the female was beyond the care the mid-wife could provide.

So because these elderly women are set in their ways, they have the right to refuse care. And even though there have been some horrible, horrible, horrible cases of male nurse/femmale patient abuse. There are just as many female nurse/ female patient abuse. If a person would require proof of this google cna/nurse abuse on patients. As a result of federal laws stating that residents have the right to refuse care. I think that this law falls under the restraint-free laws that state a resident can not be subjected to any type of restraint (even when there is total justification based on the evaluation of the individual for example: I have a resident that constantly is comming out of her chair and hurting herself (the last incident she pushed herself onto the floor busted her hed wide open and had to receive 8 staples) when resident returned from hospital I requested to put a belt on her scoot chair to prevent the event from re-occuring. When I bluntly told no I had to know why and the response was that federal law states residents have the right to fall.) While I do understand that restraints can be a type of abuse if the standard rule of 15 min out of the restraint for every two hours on the restraint and the unthinkable because some cna/nurses would restrain a resident because they didn't want "deal with them" but because of this rare occurence other residents health is not as safe as it could be.

My point is that because of the residents right to be able to refuse care the administrator, DON's and ADON's do not have any other choice but to side with the resident because some law somewhere down the line of the millions of laws that we have to abide by state that my right do not equal to the right of the resident. It is not at all fair, its unjustified, and degrading. But because people would rather enforce something that does not even remotely have any affect on them (THIS DEFINATELY APPLIES ON SO MANY DIFFERENT LEVELS) the minority has to suffer.

So just so that majority (no all) of the male cna's can relate to me and hopefully consider the advise that I'm about to offer on how to approach this situation I am 22 years old, gay, and have a fiance that is totally freaked out about some of the stories I could tell him L.O.L. The next time a female resident ask for a female to provide care try and talk to them about this. Ask them why they require a female nurse. Re-assure the resident that the care you can provide has nothing to do with being male. Ask if there was anything that can be done to make the resident more comfortable ( for instance Several of the ladies that I help provide care, we have come to an agreement that I could assist with care as long as something was always covering the resident and minimal exposre as possible. The way this is enforced is if they require incontinet briefs or diapers that gets done instantly. Then pants sock and shoes are put on. When time to put something over the torso I help the resident remove the sleeves from each arm one at a time while still tied at the neck the the gown is untied from the back while the resident keeps the gown covering her by folding her arms across the gown. while the resident is still laying in the bed we proceed to put her top on by putting the sleves on fisrt then pulling over her head (only do this if the resident is fully capable of lifting their arms at least eye level.) Once the shirt is fully covering her torso you can remove the gown with minimal exposure.

However, if the resident still request a female ask a female to assist in care. Usually female patients are o.k. with you helping provide care as long as a female is in the room also. In rare cases the female residents will still tell the male care provider to leave the room. If you have tried everything to make the resident comfortable and still the resident request a female only. Just be polite and excuse yourself. The main thing is that if you are new to the nursing home male or female you are going to have to gaing the resident's trust. If you fail to do this you will soon hate working there because them old women that still have their mind and ability to talk to your boss can ruin your reputation and your career. If you are not comfortable providing care to a resident get someone to help you don't pass your resident off on someone else it shows really poor work ethic and gives the impression that you are looking for an easy way out. Another approach to this would be talk to your co-worker and nurse about maybe trading one resident for another but make sure you have a justified answer otherwise going to look and feel really foolish.

Always remember to cover yourself when you work. People can be cruel and this expecially applies to the elderly because again they don't have anything better to do if you have given them a reason to dislike you (sometimes you can tell them "Hey sweetie your looking pretty today. if they dislike you they might go to the DON and report that they asked you to help them go to the bathroom and you replied go in your diaper that's what its there for. *really Happend to a co-worker* but if the resident was in the hallway and your nurse/co-worker heard what was said because was openly said no retaliation to you will happen from management.

Nurses (all types) takes a special person and this is not a life skill that everyone can do, and find the pleasure of knowing that every time you go into work you have made a difference in someone's life. And even though it goes often un noticed you can look at a resident you just helped and they have a smile and tears in their eyes because they didn't know what they were going to do if you hadn't come along. And even know you'll be doing the same thing agian in 5 minutes for the next four hours untill you want to castrate the inventor of the call light. Its all worth it because no matter what if its a good night that flows smoothly or one that chaotic. They are going to keep you on your toes, teach you things that you will probably forget in five minutes, tell you a story that they just told you five minutes ago and you act the way you did the first time you head it 5 months ago, and your thinking about a hundred different things that you are required to have done five minutes ago, but still stop to listen because after a while if this is truely where your heart is... other people notice and have to hear about how wonderful the CNA on a different shift is compared to the people they have to put up with on their shift and how the resident can't wait for you to come back.

And so this is what I had to say. Hopefully someone can benefit from the information that I have been able to require and hopefully for the people that are just in this field for the money will take what I have had to say about the joy's of the job that make up for everything else that can happen. Best of luck to anyone in this field of health because we have to put up with more non-sense than a mojority of people have to in their field of work (I think nurses are right under fast food workers that have to put up with people's bull crap *just my opionion from personal experience*) And to the bewilderment of your friends that you have shared what you thought was a funny story but made them sick to their stomach because they said was cruel and unusual punnishment and jokingly state for you to seek psychological evaluation. keep coming back for more because there is no greater feeling than know you don't have to wonder if you made a difference in someone's life.

wordsmith · May 1, 2010

I totally get where you're coming from, and I sympathize. When I was in nursing school in the early 1990s and doing the OB rotation, the four guys in the rotation weren't allowed to help with the birthing or exam process unless the doctor was there, although the female students could be there with only the instructor present. Go figure. Made no sense to me.

On the other side of the female/male coin, I've had male patients refuse care from me because I'm female and they wanted a guy. Sometimes I could find a male CNA and that was okay as long as the care was within a CNA's scope of practice. When it came to Foley insertion, though, that's an RN thing, and I would have to explain to the gentleman that (9 times out of 10) no male RN was available and he had two options: either I could do it now and relieve the pain and suffering problem or it would get worse, or he could wait some length of time until a male RN would be available, which could be an hour or two. I'd offer a male CNA as an assistant and keep the male patient covered as much as possible. After thinking about it, they'd let me help under those conditions.

You being gay should have absolutely nothing to do with any of it--the caring in your heart and hands is what's there. As you get further along in your career, you'll figure out how to deal with the male/female dichotomy in nursing. Personally, I feel that the more men in nursing, the better. Keep going for it. We need you :)