How do You deal with Man-Hating Female Nurses?

Nurses Men

Published

I've been working in our ER for nearly a year, and in lieu of recent events, was prompted to open this thread. I am the only male nurse in, not just the ER but in the entire hospital. The nurses I work with are very good at what they do, save for one fault. THEY HATE MALES! Despite their "friendly" and helpful demeanor there has always been some underlying hostility towards me. Not only that, I tend to overhear comments like "They only hired him because he's a male nurse." and "Guess who's YOUR partner today?" Even though this is a male nursing forum, Marci, I hope you are reading this.

One of the nurses I used to work with (who I miss dearly) suggested I try to "kill them with kindness." It didn't work. I brought homemade cheesecake. They ate it like hyenas at a slaughter, but not a single thank you from any of them.

OK here's my question: How do I attempt to solve this problem, without quitting my job (which I do love) without having to resort to murder? Has anyone run across this problem? How did you deal with it?

Let's flip this around for a second. If this nurse was the sole black nurse on an all white nursing floor and had derogatory remarks thrown his way, would ANY of us be saying to him, "Cheer up and just do your best work and kill 'em with kindness." :eek: No!! We would say what is fact:

That the behavior displayed by those nurses, if being reported accurately, is pure discrimination and blatantly illegal.

I would, for your own legal protection, note who is making what comments and when, perhaps in a folder you keep at home, so that if you should ever need to go to the HR department or a lawyer, you will have a historical account of what's going on.

By the way, you could be the male version of Florence Nightengale, and those women wouldnt give a hoot. It has nothing to do with performance and everything to do with your sex. There may be some quiet allies in your department, by the way. Hopefully they'll seek you out and give you some support if you don't decide to bail on that dump of an ER.

And that's an opinion from a feminist, former women's studies minor, honey. :)

Good luck to you. No wonder more men don't want to head into nursing.

Alison

I truely think that I would make a GREAT nurse, but I've not done anything toward reaching the goal of becoming an LPN, yet. Many times in my life I've met people who told me that "you're really able to relate with others" or "you're a sweet guy". Yet, in the back of my mind is that nagging fear that "I just won't be as good a nurse as the women, I will fail". This has to stop, and I don't think it is my problem. I really appreciate you sticking up for the guy that started this thread. My wife has told me on more than one occasion that the "field of nursing is really caddy". I think that's what she said. She's been an LPN for 14 years. She's told me that "female nurses are very gossipy", and knowing how quiet of a person she is (she's always been known as that "really quiet, but awesome, nurse") I'm inclined to believe her. Hell, I've gotten to know some of her co-workers, and there was a somewhat embarassing incident that occured. I happened to "know" one of her co-workers who had a sex change years ago from male to female. I used to go to the bar with that "girl". I know the girl's voice. She knows me more than she lets on, I'm afraid. Anyway, I had a "relationship" with one of her transsexual friends years ago, and word has ALREADY gotten around in my wife's workplace that I "had an alternative lifestyle". Tell me that isn't gossiping! It doesn't bother my wife, because she knew me pretty darn well before we got married, and believe me when I say that if my wife can become open-minded about something, ANYONE can! Still, everytime I go in there now, I wonder who's looking at me and thinking "there's that fag..." or something like that. The other day I noticed one of the openly gay CNA's at my workplace giggling with some of his outsider girlfriends (they don't work there), and looking right at me. They made a point to come over and talk by me for a little while. So, something is definitely up! Anyway, sorry to drag this out, but I'm well aware of the cliques that occur in the nursing field (as goes on anywhere). I've never been a clique-er, just doesn't make any sense to me to try to buddy with some folks and purposely exclude others.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
I'd agree with everything you said except for that.

I bought that story my first year or so out of school.

Several different hospitals, states, and agencies later I figured out the pattern that the little 80 pound pretty waif and the frail 60 something nurse who's worked there forever NEVER get assigned those combative patients if there are ever any male nurses on the floor.

You personally may run your floor that way but I can tell you from experience, you are by far the minority.

It really wouldn't bother me except that those same nurses are quick to cry discrimination if they don't get paid the same as me, they can't handle the assignment of heavy inpatient care and probably should be working in an area like outpatient where they can handle the load but they want the hospital wages, yet expect someone else to do their dirty work for them.

It's like they expect that they should only have to hang piggybacks and do IV pushes all day.

If you want a nurse's paycheck, then you need to do a nurse's job.

And that includes heavy lifting and combative patients at times.

Darl'en, I have a story to tell you. I think you'll get a kick out of this one.

A few years ago I was PRN'ing at a local community hospital, 84 beds. We had a 700lb patient in ICU. We had to triple chain two hospital beds together because ... well, she took up well over two beds! Considering this was a tiny hospital and we didn't have a lot of burly male OR female staff working at night we had to turn this woman. How the heck do you turn a 700lb patient?? You can't! We had to call Phoenix Fire every two hours to turn this woman on the PMs. No, I am not kidding.

We also had to get to her groin for a specific procedure. Guess when the resident wanted to DO this procedure? Yeah, 7PM's to 7AM's.

We called Phoenix Fire and they came, not like they had a choice or anything. Now you have to picture this... one firefighter was on his knees pushing up on her gut fat as another firefighter was on the other side holding it back. The resident was trying to thread a cath in her artery. The one on his knees was shaking and sweating as he pushed up her fat. The other was using his own body weight to hold her fat up. It was priceless. What was more priceless was seeing the other firefighters gagging and turning away at the very sight. Of course, being 110 pounds and 5' 4" I was standing off to the side LMAO!

We ALL have skills and abilities we bring to nursing. For some (male and female alike) it is pure muscle. Sometimes I can deal with an annoying patient that a male wants to strangle. Sometimes I want to strangle the patient men laugh and giggle at. We all bring what we have.

If you are getting stuck with the combative ones purely because you have muscle, get out! And NOW! Find a hospital where your skills are apprecaited.

Something I have learned over time is that when I put females that cannot possible manage a combative patient.. they have to depend on their people skills. Sometimes that means they have to ask their coworkers for help. If they have no coworkers that care to help them... is that because of the patient or the nurse? Is the nurse such a PITA that her coworkers (both male and female) don't want to help? Sure, maybe it takes six women to deal with one combative patient vs. 3 females and one male. But it pays to make the nurse create social skills were EVERYONE wants to pitch in and help. If her skills suck that bad, she needs to remove herself from MY floor before I remove her.

We are all in this together. If we don't WANT to pitch in and help, isn't that the real issue here?

If you are used for muscle only, you need to find employment elsewhere. If you don't, you have nobody to blame but yourself. Sure, you have more muscle than I likely do. But that shouldn't be the issue. The issue should be how many nurses regardless of gender want to pitch in and help. If nobody wants to help I look at the nurse nobody is helping, first. If she is doing everything right maybe it IS everyone else. That can be! But I look outside the box, I fully agree I am not the majority.

I have been doing this long enough that I get the best of the best. If they don't work out they go to a different department. My nurses work together or they don't work on my floor. Simple.

You need to either be a nurse manager where you call the shots or you need to move to a department where your skills are acknowledged. If you stick around where you are not appreciated, where does the fault go? Darl'en, the fault is yours.

There are plenty of folks like me around. Maybe you have to search to find my floors. But blaming everyone else may be correct, but it isn't going to get what YOU need.

So, manage your own floor and run things the way they SHOULD be run. If you are a newbie nurse than keep searching until you find my floor.

I agree with you to a point. If muscle is the only skill needed, move on. If a combo of skill is needed, find that floor. It exists, I swear.

Be honest, have there been times where you need help from 4 scrawny females? Did they pitch in and help? Why did or didn't they pitch in? If it isn't a healthy work environment, find one that is. Pure and simple.

Most important, find what works for you. That might take time, that's okay. Just find what works for you.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
I've been working in our ER for nearly a year, and in lieu of recent events, was prompted to open this thread. I am the only male nurse in, not just the ER but in the entire hospital. The nurses I work with are very good at what they do, save for one fault. THEY HATE MALES! Despite their "friendly" and helpful demeanor there has always been some underlying hostility towards me. Not only that, I tend to overhear comments like "They only hired him because he's a male nurse." and "Guess who's YOUR partner today?" Even though this is a male nursing forum, Marci, I hope you are reading this.

One of the nurses I used to work with (who I miss dearly) suggested I try to "kill them with kindness." It didn't work. I brought homemade cheesecake. They ate it like hyenas at a slaughter, but not a single thank you from any of them.

OK here's my question: How do I attempt to solve this problem, without quitting my job (which I do love) without having to resort to murder? Has anyone run across this problem? How did you deal with it?

Bless your heart. I am so sorry you have to put up with that bulls--t.

Those females make it hard for us real women. But as my mama used to say:

"F--k 'em and feed 'em s--t." :chuckle Seriously, ignore those silly witches.

{please replace the "w" with anything after "a" and before "c"} Don't bend over backwards to try to please people who obviously have no respect for you. Just do your job and maintain your professionalism with your co-workers.

If all else fails, catch 'em in the parking lot and beat the hell out of 'em. :rotfl: {Just kidding} I wish you all the luck in the world :)

Up Vote Up Vote ×

I'm male and I've had that experince too .Only once in 18 years, but it was hell at the time. What you are experiencing (isolation) is a covert form of bullying. Conversations suddenly stopping when you walk in the staff room, not being acknowleged etc, being left out of coversations, being ignored.eg Having to listen to 'why women need men as much as fish need bicycles'.( when was the last time you saw a fish putting out the rubbish bin? is what i usually reply) Having a quick retort can help, but don't get upset , because that's what they want. If you get angry and rash and are provoked into saying something they can use against you it will only reward their bad behaviour.:)

Having said all that Discrimation and bullying is something women have had to deal with for years in male dominated workplaces. Males can do it to other males and females likewise to each other. I worked in an all male culture once and hated it. What's the answer?? I think work places that have a good gender mix are best. Ying and Yang and all that. A few women in an all male envirinment are jsut as important as a few males in an all female environment.

In my experience the culture of bullying is rife in nursing. We take great care of patients but treat each other cruelly at times. Bulling usually occurs when soemone is a bit different, and being a different gender is but one exapmle of this.

The up side is that most women I workl with really enjoy having a male about to break up the all female work place. Being different people remember you name and if you do something good it usually egts noticed.The one rule I adhere to I think was alluded to by This is perhaps one reason men do generally get promoted ahead of women.They get noticed more for doing exactly the same work. Because nurturing and caring are not traditionally seen as male traits I do IMHO think most ( not all) guys also choose nuring because they really want to do it.

I'd either try and get some more males in to your work place. If there are 3 or 4 of you I think the problem will stop by itself. If you an't get more males to join consider leaving and finding another ER to work in. Try confronting the ring leaders. eg " I notice every time I walk in the room the converation stops. " Revealing 'The Game' might take the fun out of it for them.

The best way to really **** these bullys is as someone else said to be really good at what you do, keep a clean slate eg never take longer than you are entitled to for breaks, and keep being reasonable and nice. Eventaully they'll give up when they realise that it's not working and they'll move onto someone else. That's my observatin of bullies.

Generally I love working with women. I have always had one rule..Don't dip your pen in the company ink... One of the other women mentioned fear as a possible motibvation. There may be something in this. Once women know you are happily married or gay and not a sexual threat they tend to really open up a lot quicker. I think the fact I never had a sister is the reason I went into nursing and that's the best way to relate in the work place.

Good luck and let us know how you get on. Hope this is of some use.

Regards

Diddoms

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Freud described these females as having member envy. They are very angy because they were born with wrong genitalia. Unless these females are willing to seek psychological counseling, they will never change. Some will require medication to help resolve their psychological issues. Killing them with kindness will not work. Confront them for what they are, and assert yourself.

I'm pretty sure I wasn't born with "the wrong genitalia..." except occasionally while camping someplace cold, that is. member envy, indeed.

That said, anyone who treats anyone else with disrespect because of their gender is unprofessional at best and really ought to be counseled. As, in my opinion, should anyone under the impression that Freud's idea above has any legitimacy.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

I spent 20 years as an RN before retiring due to getting tired of fighting the discrimination against male nurses. During my years as an RN, I worked in 5 hospitals, 1 nursing home, and a prison. Though rare, about one in a hundred, there are nurses that do hate males. Sooner or later at each facility, I ended up the target of gender bias. In the first hospital, I was the first male in the history of the hospital, and the DON handled the problem by identifying it for what it was, and counseling the staff that discrimination was not tolerated.

The next hospital had a recently graduated BSN nurse whose favorite saying was "all men are a##h%&*s"., then couldn't understand why lesbians kept hitting on her. We got along quite well, with her encouraging me to apply for shift supervisor. A couple of years later, another new graduate BSN (less than 6 months actual practice as an RN) came to our hospital after being turned down as the DON for the other hospital in the valley, where she had become the "acting" DON after the DON had been fired. She made an attempt to get my position as third shift supervisor within a week of arriving. About a month after she came in, one male nurse (the ER coordinator) and his wife (the OB coordinator) left for another community. This RN then became the OB coordinator. She accused our male DON of incompetence for requiring a female nurse in OB to go into the OR as the neonatal nurse for a c-section, claiming that the female nurse was unqualified. When the DON was fired over this issue, she became the "acting" DON. Her first action was to appoint that same "unqualified" OB nurse as the new OB coordinator. Since I couldn't trust her as a leader, I went elsewhere.

The next hospital was fine until a nurse who was in a domestic violence situation complained that she "didn't like" my leadership style as a relief supervisor. She became the relief supervisor. Five weeks later, she was arrested for stealing percocet from the pharmacy. Yep, you guessed it, only the on duty supervisor had keys to the pharmacy.

The nursing home job lasted less than 6 months before I quit in disgust over how the assistant DON treated everybody. She didn't just hate men, she hated everybody.

The last place I worked was the worst though. There were three nurses that hated men. One of them told me to my face that she "couldn't see why we had to have a male supervisor in a female profession!". Of course she also told me that if I complained, all three would deny that she had said it. Two of the three (1 RN and 1 LPN) were current or past victims of domestic violence. The other was a new RN that couldn't see why I wouldn't let her just run the shift and give her the respect that her mother had earned over her 25+ years at that hospital. I had more than 18 years experience, the closest they could come was 7 years experience.

The LPN accused me of causing the death of a patient by ignoring her warning that the patient's cardiac monitor alarm had gone off. Both of the other nurses (one who wasn't even on the floor at the time of the alarm) backed her up that she had to come over and shake me to get me to respond. The State Board's investigation could find absolutely no delay between the monitor alarm and the start of the code. Everybody in the hospital agreed that I was the first person to respond and to initiate the code. The same State Board that told a female nurse, whom I was a friend of, not to worry about her ex's false complaint against her, then took action against him, did nothing to the females that made false accusations against a male nurse, in fact the LPN passed to become an RN.

When I complained to the CNO that the first complaint was gender biased, she hit the roof. She denied that there was any discrimination against males in her hospital. Each and every attempt that I made to clear my name was met with "that doesn't matter, the only thing that matters is the perception that you create" (a denial of due process according to the US Supreme Court). My schedule then became extremely dangerous. With a 30 mile commute, I would be scheduled for all three shifts within a 6-7 day period, ending on a night, have one day off, come back in on a day shift, work the next night shift, then a couple of days off before starting a similar type of schedule. As soon as anything else could be found, she filed another complaint against me with the Board of Nursing for not visually inspecting the peri-area of a female paranoid-schizophrenic patient from the state mental hospital (retaliation). I had taken full care of this patient while she was bedridden in ICU, including changing adult diapers and cleaning her after she was incontinent of urine and stool. After she became ambulatory, she was doing her own peri-care. A couple of days later, she developed bruising, starting in the genitals, and expanding to the hips and thighs. I was one of the four nurses that had been responsible for her care over the day+ that the bruising developed. I was the only one charged with negligence. Another of the nurses was told that if she said anything in my defense to the state investigator, that she would lose her license as well (witness tampering). The Montana State Board of Nursing, in their ruling, stated that every nurse was required to visually inspect the genitals of every patient every shift as a part of the total body skin assessment. Since the most frequent felony that male nurses are convicted of nationally is sexual assault, and the State Board of Nursing has no control over County Attorneys, the message that I received was Males Need Not Apply in Montana.

I am tired of tolerating the discrimination against males in the profession. The Montana State Board of Nursing took 16 months to even begin an investigation into the allegation that I had killed a patient. I am also not willing to risk being accused let alone convicted of a felony criminal offense, and carry a "dangerous sexual predator" label for the rest of my life just to practice a profession that obviously does not want males. I let my license lapse the following year.

My advice to any male that finds themselves in a hostile work environment: document, document, document, then complain with the documentation to back you up. If inaction or retaliation occur, then file complaints with your state labor relations board or human rights commission and the national human rights commission then get out of Dodge before you lose everything.

Again, the women who are like this are few and far between, but they are there and as you can see are dangerous, not just pests. The only way to end this is for everyone, including all of the other women, to speak up. Let the abusers know that what they are doing is intolerable to all. That is how men have been speaking up against discrimination in male dominated professions to reduce the discrimination and harassment against women.

Now that i have vented my hurt and frustration, I'll keep quiet.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

Good God, what a story! I'm sorry you were wasted in such a way by a profession that needs ALL it's people. Not much else to say, sadly, except good luck in whatever you've decided to do now.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

rofl!! "member envy" well I think a few of those gals may very well fit into that category and not even know it. I am not a male either. One thing I have noticed is there have been a few male nurses I have run across who went around issuing orders, etc, and appeared to have "MD envy", and the female nurses didn't take those attitudes very well. This only occurred with maybe 3 or 4 of the male nurses I have run across i my 16 years of nursing. But, this could also be where some of the attitude you are unfortunately dealing with stems from. Just hold your ground, act professionally and yep don't do any! favours without getting paid for it. Those gals, well most of them, will come around.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

I know there is always discrimination anywhere you work, unfourtunatly these cases of men being discriminated in Nursing makes me want to puke. After all these years of women trying to be equals in the work force, to not be dicriminated in the work force, and then to turn around and discriminate a man, is utterly shameful.

I would never stand for it in my workplace. I would as a woman speak up if the discrimination occured. If a majority of women did this, it would not occur, that is the bottom line. One voice out of many will not be heard. It is the fault of those who say nothing, to allow it to persist in our field.We need all the wonderful nurses we can get...male or female!

Dont let it happen where you work!

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Sad but true, I have been dealing with this problem for thirty two years, fortunately for me, I was trained very well and learned very early to pick my battles and stand my ground when necessary. But the cost has been tremendous. I haven't seen in this thread, the obvious yet covert truth of the matter. What I mean is that, a male may win a battle or two or twenty, but eventually if one female begins the discriminatory behavior against any male, sooner or later she will "enlist" as many cohorts as she feels necessary, to win the "WAR" and be rid of the pesky male. I have both witnessed this behavior and been a victim of it many times. There were several times that I considered legal action against individuals that were particularly venemous. I am sure that I could have won cases of slander and liable aganst those individuals. Consider this, I have been an R.N. for thirty two years, I have never once been repremanded by any state licensing board, have never been accused of any malpractice issues, or any other issues concerning patient care, and yet as I approach retirement, I am still BLS, ACLS, and PALS, certified, yet having trouble finding work in E.R. There are those who will say that, "He is not the nurse he used to be." or "He must have burnt too many bridges." or "He must have peed off the wrong person." To those I say, you are wrong, standing up for one's self is not the answer, because when you do, you make your enemies more determined, this is where the "enlisting" of help to scuttle your ship begins. Giving exceptional nursing care is not the answer, it is a threat to those who would sit on their duffs and gab about anything but patient care. To those who might say he's not the nurse he was once, I say, "then why am I still able to do evrything an E.R. nurse does?? :angryfire The answer to discrimination of anykind is to confront it and erradicate it. Unfortunately there are to few males in the nursing profession to accomplish this. Females know this and I suspect, that this (Keeping males on the defensive) contributes greatly to the reason there is so much widespread discrimination against males in our profession, and that my fellow professionals S--ks! :o

Tell it like it is brother! Those same hostile environment laws apply to men too! The females seem to forget that. One good lawsuit with them personally listed as well as the company as defendents will stop the BS! Use a voice activated tape recorder too! It is an insult to men who have accepted and fought for equal rights to then be discriminared by the very ones the men supported in their struggle. Bt the way, there are more women than men in the U.S. now, so men are now the minority and should have the advantages of all those non-discriminatory laws. Yeah right! It's all so sad. Our livelihood is not a joke!:rotfl:

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Darl'en, I have a story to tell you. I think you'll get a kick out of this one.

A few years ago I was PRN'ing at a local community hospital, 84 beds. We had a 700lb patient in ICU. We had to triple chain two hospital beds together because ... well, she took up well over two beds! Considering this was a tiny hospital and we didn't have a lot of burly male OR female staff working at night we had to turn this woman. How the heck do you turn a 700lb patient?? You can't! We had to call Phoenix Fire every two hours to turn this woman on the PMs. No, I am not kidding.

We also had to get to her groin for a specific procedure. Guess when the resident wanted to DO this procedure? Yeah, 7PM's to 7AM's.

We called Phoenix Fire and they came, not like they had a choice or anything. Now you have to picture this... one firefighter was on his knees pushing up on her gut fat as another firefighter was on the other side holding it back. The resident was trying to thread a cath in her artery. The one on his knees was shaking and sweating as he pushed up her fat. The other was using his own body weight to hold her fat up. It was priceless. What was more priceless was seeing the other firefighters gagging and turning away at the very sight. Of course, being 110 pounds and 5' 4" I was standing off to the side LMAO!

We ALL have skills and abilities we bring to nursing. For some (male and female alike) it is pure muscle. Sometimes I can deal with an annoying patient that a male wants to strangle. Sometimes I want to strangle the patient men laugh and giggle at. We all bring what we have.

If you are getting stuck with the combative ones purely because you have muscle, get out! And NOW! Find a hospital where your skills are apprecaited.

Something I have learned over time is that when I put females that cannot possible manage a combative patient.. they have to depend on their people skills. Sometimes that means they have to ask their coworkers for help. If they have no coworkers that care to help them... is that because of the patient or the nurse? Is the nurse such a PITA that her coworkers (both male and female) don't want to help? Sure, maybe it takes six women to deal with one combative patient vs. 3 females and one male. But it pays to make the nurse create social skills were EVERYONE wants to pitch in and help. If her skills suck that bad, she needs to remove herself from MY floor before I remove her.

We are all in this together. If we don't WANT to pitch in and help, isn't that the real issue here?

If you are used for muscle only, you need to find employment elsewhere. If you don't, you have nobody to blame but yourself. Sure, you have more muscle than I likely do. But that shouldn't be the issue. The issue should be how many nurses regardless of gender want to pitch in and help. If nobody wants to help I look at the nurse nobody is helping, first. If she is doing everything right maybe it IS everyone else. That can be! But I look outside the box, I fully agree I am not the majority.

I have been doing this long enough that I get the best of the best. If they don't work out they go to a different department. My nurses work together or they don't work on my floor. Simple.

You need to either be a nurse manager where you call the shots or you need to move to a department where your skills are acknowledged. If you stick around where you are not appreciated, where does the fault go? Darl'en, the fault is yours.

There are plenty of folks like me around. Maybe you have to search to find my floors. But blaming everyone else may be correct, but it isn't going to get what YOU need.

So, manage your own floor and run things the way they SHOULD be run. If you are a newbie nurse than keep searching until you find my floor.

I agree with you to a point. If muscle is the only skill needed, move on. If a combo of skill is needed, find that floor. It exists, I swear.

Be honest, have there been times where you need help from 4 scrawny females? Did they pitch in and help? Why did or didn't they pitch in? If it isn't a healthy work environment, find one that is. Pure and simple.

Most important, find what works for you. That might take time, that's okay. Just find what works for you.

I laughed my @#$%* off reading your story!!

To clarify things, I was only talking about previous jobs, my current job is great and no female that I work with now has ever behaved that way toward me or any of the other men on the floor, we work together as a team.

Assignments are not made based on gender/muscle, etc. and the vast majority of the charge nurses making assignments are female.

The female nurses on my floor can handle their own, they're not looking for men to rescue them, we all jump in when things are going wrong regardless of who it's happening to.

P.S. I love Phoenix, had a friend from high school who had a full scholarship to ASU, used to visit her all the time.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
I laughed my @#$%* off reading your story!!

Thanks for seeing the humor I attempted to interject. I was trying to make a point, you clearly see my point.

I love male nurses. They bring something to nursing that females don't. Call me a bigot, I don't care. I defend my stance nonetheless.

You keep doing what you do! Don't you DARE let the female bigots play you for a fool. I mean that with all my heart and soul! ~~

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Add a Comment