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Joined: Sep 7, '06; Posts: 8,658 (25% Liked) ; Likes: 3,943

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  • Apr 19

    Quote from Nrsing101
    I think you just mentioned the big difference between a registered nurse in the US and in the UK. Nursing in the UK is the like Licensed Practical Nurse in the USA. I know basic care is taught in nursing school but wiping patients's asses without mask??? SERIOUSLY?? you do not find anything wrong with that?

    I think it is just a matter of cultural difference. Nurses in the US are divided into RN, LPN, CNA, PCT. In the UK, YOU DO ALL THAT! Even kitchen stuffs...
    Outside of specific infection control precautions requiring a mask, why would anyone wear a mask to provide peri care? And, yes, there are different levels of education and certification/licensure in the US, but the RN is ultimately responsible for, and involved in, all nursing care, including baths and cleaning bottoms. RNs are changing and cleaning people every day in the hospital in which I work, and all over the US.

  • Apr 19

    Quote from Nrsing101
    I think you just mentioned the big difference between a registered nurse in the US and in the UK. Nursing in the UK is the like Licensed Practical Nurse in the USA. I know basic care is taught in nursing school but wiping patients's asses without mask??? SERIOUSLY?? you do not find anything wrong with that?

    I think it is just a matter of cultural difference. Nurses in the US are divided into RN, LPN, CNA, PCT. In the UK, YOU DO ALL THAT! Even kitchen stuffs...
    I did not mention any differences! You did.

    I was an Enrolled nurse - THAT was like an LPN.

    What possible reason would you need to wear a mask when, in your words; "wiping patients ass?" Actually you said patients's - appalling grammar.
    For information, when I started nursing I was told, "if you need gloves to clean a patient you will never be a nurse." So I find nothing wrong with cleaning a patient without a mask, unless as stated they require infection control precautions.

    In UK nurses are divided into NP, RN, HCA. It is called a team. Even as an ENP if I found a soiled patient I was expected to clean them - that was part of my job description - I could ask for help but my colleagues would be mightily P'd off (rightly) if I tried to get them to do it. I also made tea for patients and relatives.

    Quote from spacemonkey15
    And here's me thinking the "too posh to wash" nurse was just a meme made up to belittle modern university trained nurses.
    I agree, but we seem to have a living, breathing example.

  • Apr 19

    Quote from GrumpyRN
    I agree, but we seem to have a living, breathing example.
    Im starting to wonder if they're trolling.

  • Apr 17

    Quote from Nrsing101
    I worked as a RN in the UK but i am now in the US. to cut it short, you will do "hands on" in the uk like cleaning nappies without masks! Cleaning the room, serving tea. YES, THAT IS A REGISTERED NURSE. And you will lose your skill even as simple as documentation because they are simply narrating it.. doesnt matter if it is not medically appropriate words like HAPPY. Stethoscope isnt used regularly. Basically, RN job there is very limited to being like Florence Nightingale. There is more autonomy in the US and higher technology. This is the truth.. i tell you, no mask except for patients with PTB.

    What utter tosh!

    Since moving to the US I have deskilled because I no longer -
    set up CPAP or BiPAP
    suture wounds
    apply plaster casts
    do my own ECGs
    Assess pressure areas, hydration and nutritional status in the context of washing a patient
    Perform holistic care
    And why would you wear a mask to change a diaper? Seriously?

    The "technology" that you refer to in the US is actually the same monitoring and IV pumps that we had in the UK in the 90s. The CPAP and BiPAP is even older!

    If you don't want to care for patients, then don't be a nurse.
    If you just want to play with "technology" and do charting then find a new career.

    I'm sure your team in the UK is much happier without Mrs "Too Posh To Wash" slowing them down.

    I loved working ER in the UK but it has zero job satisfaction in the US as all we do is blood draws and give meds.

  • Apr 17

    Quote from Nrsing101
    Hi . I just read this too late. I worked as RN in the UK and now in the US. my husband is also in USAF. Although there Re more paid leaves in the UK , the salary is way too much lower than in the USA. Pkus the taxes in the UK is like triple than here (tax plus NI). Most notable difference is lack of autonomy in the UK. Nurses there are more overworked .. you have to wash the patient, change nappies without masks for god's sake, and clean the room. plus SERVE TEA. I was like a servant or barista.

    I prefer the USA more. Here, nurses are skilled.. and more scientific and hightech. Plus, you can easily have financial stability because of higher salary and lower taxes. UK always brag about "free NHS" but it is not free at all..just look how much percentage of their earnings go to the government. 30%?? Out of £23,000 band 5 nurse salary PER YEAR.
    Oh dear, poor you! Having to actually look after a patient. You know... that stuff they taught you in nursing school. It is called basic care.

    What possible reason would you need a mask to cleanse a patient? Serving tea is part of ensuring your patients are hydrated and nourished - also it gives you a chance to assess their mental state.

    As for salary and deductions; I have said it before, it is irrelevant what you earn in another country. If you could not have financial stability as a staff nurse in the UK it says more about you. I know plenty of staff nurses who have, surprise surprise, actually bought houses, go on holidays, have cars, some have even managed to have money in the bank.

    This was a discussion about Nurse Practitioners so saying US nurses are more skilled than UK nurses is quite ignorant - see my reply to babyNP above.

  • Mar 17

    thanks for your reply, and answering my question

  • Mar 17

    Quote from poppyflower
    thanks for your reply, but you didnt answer my question. Put simply, i am asking whether you can get a promotion from band 5 to 6 in the same department without having to apply, and go through an interview for it as level of education and skill increases.

    As XB9S said;

    Quote from XB9S
    Unless you were appointed on a trainee contract which specifically states promotion will be gained after successful completion of ........... then no, you should go through a fair and transparent interview process.

    What does your contract of employment say? You should have your conditions clearly stated. Also what did it say on any advertisements for posts? Did it say "automatic increase to band 6 when course completed?" If it did say that then you may have a case to take to the union.

    If everyone is getting a promotion but not you, that is discrimination and can be addressed. However if the band 6 posts are up for fair competition and you just don't get one then that is just bad luck.

    You do say that 2 band 6 positions were opened and only 2 band 5 nurses got them...

  • Mar 16

    Simple answer to your question whether you should all automatically be a band 6 is... money.
    Band 6's cost more than band 5's.

    My question would be why were staff getting a band 6 for what is basically a clinic post?
    Before you answer that can I tell you that I know what is involved in a pre-assessment clinic. This role used to be carried out by the junior doctor and medical students.

    So to answer your question should you be a band 6? No in my opinion. Only the charge nurse should be a band 6. Neither would I class you as specialist nurses - sorry.

    If you are getting a band 6 for this post - grab it with both hands. Someone somewhere may put a stop to it.

  • Feb 27

    Quote from joansmith1
    I recently made my first real nursing error/mistake of my career. There was no harm to the patient (thankfully) and they were never in any jeopardy (again, thankfully). I was able to quickly identify the factors that led to my making this mistake. I have learned a valuable lesson and know I will be a better nurse because of it.

    What I am struggling with is the shame of making such an error and how I handled it. I didn't handle it with the integrity that I thought I had. I'm sure the shock and fear of what happened impacted my judgement on how I handled it but that is no excuse. I'm sure I will eventually forgive myself for the error since I know what caused it and I've learned from it. But I'm not sure how I can forgive myself for how I handled it.

    I walk around work feeling like everyone knows what happened. I don't even want to show my face. I don't know how this will impact me at work. I'm truly mortified over the whole thing. I'm curious if anyone has had a similar experience and how you handled it.
    I was involved in a sentinel event that had a very bad outcome for the young woman who was the patient. There was a whole string of errors by a whole string of nurses, NPs and MDs that contributed to the event, but I was the one responsible for the patient when all of the mistakes caught up with her and things turned rapidly and irreversibly south. I beat myself up for months. My colleagues all knew about the event, of course, and there was a lot of talking behind my back -- even a decade later. I could barely hold my head up enough to find my way back to work the next day, and then there was a series of inquiries. I don't know if the other folks in the chain of errors were also subject to the same feelings of shame, feelings of incompetence or the inquiries. I only know that I was, and it was horrible. I heard second hand about M & M Rounds -- where the physicians and NPs who contributed to the series of errors that caused the event blames me, personally for the whole debacle. I was mortified, but I, too felt that I was to blame, that *I* should have caught the errors, that *I* should have been able to figure out what was going on. I blamed myself for years and years, and I still wake up in the middle of the night sometimes, wracked with guilt.

    How did I handle it? By blaming myself even long after the inquiries revealed that I wasn't the only person to blame. How would I advise you to handle it? Not the way I did.

    Journaling helps. Write for at least 20 minutes, even if you don't know what to say. Keep writing "I don't know what to say" until you realize that you're pouring out all of your feelings in your writing -- and that you didn't even know what you were feeling until you found yourself writing about it. Some will tell you to pray, and if that's your thing, do so. It's taken me years and years to figure out that the journaling probably accomplishes the same things for me that asking God achieves for others. So do either or do both.

    Accept your part in the mistake. Be accountable. Be responsible. OWN your mistake. And learn from it. And hold your head up because there isn't a single one of us out there who hasn't made a mistake. No one is perfect. Even if they swear up and down they've never made a mistake, they have. No one is perfect. No one. My mistake -- and the mistakes of many others -- was so much worse than yours because of the horrible outcome.

    And forgive yourself. For me, that was the hardest part. But it is necessary because as long as you keep beating yourself up over it, you're harming yourself. And you're more likely to make more mistakes because of it.

    I hope me baring my soul has helped!

  • Feb 7

    Quote from jenkt
    I 1000000000% agree with this post!!

    I am a Canadian trained nurse who moved here to the UK two years ago. I did obtain nursing registration here but it was not without (many, MANY) problems. I have yet to practise as I gave birth to my son, however my husband and close friend work for the NHS so I am now quite familiar with nursing here (going for an interview this week, though not overly excited about it!)

    Thank you for putting this information out there so eloquently.

    Top statements that I completely agree with:
    - NMC is awful for too many reasons to list
    - Nurses are underpaid (essentially minimum wage which I find incredibly disturbing and disrespectful)
    - Nursing is not a respected profession here

    For these reasons alone, avoid the UK!
    NMC are awful :- Can't comment as I have had nothing to do with them other than give money every year. I understand that if you are foreign trained then you can have problems.

    Nurses underpaid :- Absolutely, BUT, please don't tell lies. A simple 30 second google tells you that minimum wage is £7.83, bottom of band 1 is £7:89 and as staff nurses START on band 5 that makes it £11:32 (In Scotland; £8:47 band 1, £11:48 band 5).

    Nursing not respected :- Don't know where you are but I have never found this to be true. Politicians don't respect us but the public do.

    If you have yet to practice in the UK as a nurse you really can't comment that you are "familiar with nursing." You are going by hearsay and second hand evidence. I am assuming that you gave birth in an NHS hospital? How did that compare? How much were you asked to pay?

    If you are going for an interview that "you are not overly excited about" I would advise you to cancel. This type of attitude comes over in interviews - I know, I have experienced it from the interviewers side.

    To Phil, Osceteacher and Madeline, I was an Enrolled Nurse. It was the only way I could get into nursing, my qualifications were engineering based.
    The training was extremely rugged and I learned about anatomy and physiology exactly the same as the RGN students. I learned about the disease process and why we did what we did. I was not trained for ward management.
    THAT was the difference between EN and RGN training. Plus, it meant I was paid enough to look after my wife and 2 children.
    At that time (1980's) there were degree courses available if you wanted to do that - they were treated the same as all university courses; students were given a grant BUT had to work on the wards during holiday times when they were paid as nursing students. These students were looked upon as the 'future nursing management'.

    Once qualified I could, and occasionally did, take charge of a ward if I was the most senior person on duty, I did ward rounds and drug rounds. I was treated and expected to be part of the team.
    The Enrolled Nurse was a bedside nurse who knew HOW to do things with less emphasis on WHY things were done.

    Edited to add;
    Having nurses with degrees did not (and has not) made us better nurses. It should make us better professionals although I see little evidence of this.
    I met a nurse last year who informed me that she had 3 masters degrees but got a bit ticked off when I reminded her that everything she did had to signed off by a doctor. (She was in the community)
    My simple BN allowed me to autonomously see, treat and discharge patients without recourse to a doctor as that was my role. So I'm not sure 1) what her 3 masters were in and 2) why she bothered to do them.

  • Feb 7

    Quote from babyNP.
    There is no such thing as a nurse practitioner license in the UK. Just the RN license. It's a doozy and will take you several months to get with a lot of paperwork and costs a lot of money. For pitiful pay in return (they pay NPs less than I made as a bedside RN with just a few years of experience)...

    NPs are not utilized as widely as they are in the US. I don't know the role of a FNP in the UK or if there is one. They do utilize neonatal NPs.

    On the bright side, you no longer have to take the IELTS (English as a foreign language) test in order to get the license

    keep us posted on your journey if you decide to go down that path...

    eta: here is a link to the NHS pay scales. Postings I've seen for NNPs are paid at band 8A, which converts to a paltry $57k in USD. I currently make more than twice that in the US.

    NHS pay scales 217-18 | Royal College of Nursing
    We also have ENP's. I was one. Lot's of nurse practitioners in the NHS, we even have Advanced Nurse Practitioners who are on the medical rota as opposed to the nursing rota.

    Please do not make direct comparisons between UK and USA salaries. It is pointless. Costs are different.
    For information; most band 5 nurses seem to manage quite well on their salaries. If you get a band 8a (you won't as that is a senior management position. You are more likely to get a band 6 or a band 7) you can live very comfortably.

    Oh and by the way, nobody cares what nurses get in the US unless they are looking to immigrate. It is a different system.

  • Jan 1

    This is not a problem in UK, nurses can have up to 1 year off for maternity leave so the issue should never arise.

    And yes, I am crowing just a bit.

  • Dec 31 '17

    By your own admission, your husband is the one who outed you. To his best friend. Is it possible your hubby told the friend, who then told his wife and forgot to say "And they really want it to remain private for a little longer"? Why are you so obsessed with nailing this woman to the wall? Because she outed you? Or is there a more 'embarrassing' reason? Few people care if a couple engage in sex before marriage anymore. It's not that big a deal. Let this all go. She did nothing wrong. She wasn't really a friend to begin with, again by your own admission. She's your husband's best friend's wife. If you feel you need to do something about it, just let her know how much it hurt you. Professionally, she has done nothing wrong and cannot be 'punished' because she hurt your feelings and made your husband's family think less of you. Shake it off, pull up your big girl panties, and concentrate on your new marriage and your new pregnancy.

  • Oct 8 '17

    Yep, yet again I have to agree with XB9S. 3 nurses to 8 beds????? Your laughing and yes I would move people in a heartbeat.

    Make sure there is a rota for moving so that it is fair and everyone takes their turn.

  • Oct 8 '17

    I did not say it was laughable, I said you were laughing. The exact opposite of what you think I meant.
    be laughing Meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary

    I'm sorry, but up to 30 patients per day maximum between 3 of you, all expected to go home with some of them sitting in chairs is not, or should not, be that worrying. I'm not saying it is easy but very little in nursing is.

    I stated; make sure there is a rota to ensure fairness. Complain if this is not being done. Management hate complaints of unfairness that can be substantiated.

    I know post op patients can be a bit of work - been there, done that, but how close are you observing patients? Are they still intubated or unconscious when they return?

    In your original post you asked for opinions, I gave you mine. Remember, I worked in an ED that would have 150 - 200 patients going through per day with 8 nurses. Moving staff is part of managements role.

    You need to balance the benefits of where you are, I presume Monday to Friday and no nights, with your peace of mind.

    Take care.