Nurses cannot take orders from MA's, what is your protocol? Nurses cannot take orders from MA's, what is your protocol? | allnurses

Nurses cannot take orders from MA's, what is your protocol?

  1. 0 I called a doctor today about his patient (labs) just to let him know a panic level. I was told by his "nurse" that she would let him know. I called back later because the IV came out and the patient said she was going home and wanted the IV to stay out. I called again. The "nurse" asked him, came back to the phone and said you can leave it out. I called later in the day to let him know that the lab value had gone up even further and did he want to cancel the discharge? The "nurse" came back to the phone and said cancel the discharge. Then she say's I'm tired of you calling. Were trying to see patients here and you're bothering the doctor. I am his nurse and the next time you call I'll decide if the question warrants asking. I wish you would quit calling. I said I'll call when I think it's necessary and I said you are not his "nurse" are you? She said yes I am. I said RN or LPN? It got quiet. I said you're an MA right? Yes she said. I said don't tell me that you'll make that decision. I am the nurse and you will ask the doctor what I tell you to or put him on the phone if I need to talk to him. She was really rude. Later the doctor called himself and I happened to answer the phone. We talked about the patient and then I told him about what happened with his "nurse". I told him. "You know Dr. Lee we as nurses here at the hospital cannot take verbal orders from medical assistants" and I would appreciate your MA telling me not to call and that she will make the decision as to what is or isn't important. He said "I'm so sorry, I promise I will talk to her about that and no I didn't know you couldn't take orders from a medical assistant". I talked to risk management then and they said I could take down her name and title and write the order then write the doctors name behind that but that we should be asking the doctors if they would be willing to sign orders behind the MA's. Do any of you have a protocol or a yes we can take their order or no we can't. I had never thought about it before. I did ask several doctors about it today and they said if I say something to the MA and she tells you what I said yes I would be willing to sign behind that order. Then how do you know the order has been conveyed word for word and nothing important missed in the translation? He said that I don't know. I am going to take this up with the CNO on Monday. Let me know how you handle this so maybe I can get some good ideas before Monday. Thanks!
    Last edit by DutchgirlRN on Feb 18, '05
  2. 27 Comments so far...

  3. Visit  rnmi2004 profile page
    0
    I'm a new nurse who just started working, but I can tell you that I wouldn't take a phone order even if I knew I was talking to a nurse on the other end. Our hospital's protocol is that I can take orders from doctors, PA's, & NP's.
  4. Visit  Tweety profile page
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    Sounds like you handled the situation very well.
  5. Visit  DutchgirlRN profile page
    0
    Quote from 3rdShiftGuy
    Sounds like you handled the situation very well.
    THANKS TWEETY !!!
  6. Visit  RNPATL profile page
    0
    I think this is a very real issue with hopsital nurses these days. The office "nurse" many times is not a nurse at all. There ar times with me when I will call the physician and I know the MA or the RN, LPN on the other end .... my call is generally information for the physician, but 9 times out of 10, I need additional orders. The physician knows that the RN at the hospital can not take verbal orders from another nurse or from the MA.

    I agree with Tweety that you habdled it correctly and certainly having a meeting with the CNO to clarify the issue is a good thing. Physicians tend to blur the lines when it comes to MA's and what their general scope or practice is in relationship to talking with the nurses over the phone.
  7. Visit  DelightRN profile page
    0
    Quote from rnmi2004
    I'm a new nurse who just started working, but I can tell you that I wouldn't take a phone order even if I knew I was talking to a nurse on the other end. Our hospital's protocol is that I can take orders from doctors, PA's, & NP's.
    ITA. I would never take orders from an office nurse, even if she were actually a nurse. In fact, the only time I've ever taken orders from an MD via an RN are when the MD in question is scrubbed into surgery and I'm on speakerphone talking to him.

    You are a professional nurse, and when you need to speak with an MD, speak with him/her, not an office surrogate whose credentials you are unsure of.
  8. Visit  Marie_LPN, RN profile page
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    First thing i ask is for the last name (and first) and the job title of the "nurse" i'm speaking to, to make sure the person i'm talking to is an LPN or an RN.

    (We have a policy against taking VOs through and MA.)
  9. Visit  NurseCard profile page
    0
    Okay, our policy is that we can take phone orders from a PA or an NP, but... well, what exactly is the difference between an MA and a PA?
  10. Visit  DutchgirlRN profile page
    0
    Quote from RealNurseWitch
    Okay, our policy is that we can take phone orders from a PA or an NP, but... well, what exactly is the difference between an MA and a PA?
    The difference is 6 years education in a university. An MA or medical assistant may go to a school like you see advertised on TV "you too can be working in the medical field in as little as 5 months". Some have never gone to any school just on the job training. A PA or Physicians Assistant is like a Nurse Practioner. They have an MSN and have to pass advanced boards and are able to write prescriptions.
  11. Visit  NurseFirst profile page
    0
    Quote from dutchgirlrn
    the difference is 6 years education in a university. an ma or medical assistant may go to a school like you see advertised on tv "you too can be working in the medical field in as little as 5 months". some have never gone to any school just on the job training. a pa or physicians assistant is like a nurse practioner. they have an msn and have to pass advanced boards and are able to write prescriptions.
    well, no, actually, they don't. and, in fact, early on, many pa programs offered, at most, a bachelor's degree. the pa program associated with stanford actually runs through a community college, so guess what? associate degrees for them! over the years, more and more pa programs have gone to (appropriately, i think) offering master's degrees. like master's in nursing (msn), the pa masters have their own set of initials, it is not considered to be a master of arts or masters of science degree.

    nursefirst
  12. Visit  KrisRNwannabe profile page
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    Dutchgirl I think you did a wonderful job handling the situation. I crack up everytime I see these study at home things. I always imagine: yes you too can be a brain surgen!!! with our new simple, study at home program, you can be operating on patients in as little as 6 months. they just crack me up. sorry honey, I am going through alot to have that RN behind my name and it burns me that some just running around saying they are nurses. The MA tried this at my doctors office. I had a question for the nurse and she kept trying to offer her opinion. i said I will just wait and see what the RN has to say. she says well I am a nurse!! and I said " Last time I checked, Ross medical school doesn't offer any nursing programs, and that little diploma on the wall with your name on it says "MEDICAL ASSISSTANT" until your name has RN behind it i will wait for so and so the actual nurse. When i was to so and so the nurse i told her of this conversation she was like not again! apparently they have this probelm often with her. needless to say, she doesn't work there anymore.
  13. Visit  jewelcutt profile page
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    I get sooooo tired of medical assistants calling themselves nurses! I actually saw a comercial for ross or something like it in the detroit area where the girl always had two dreams "To become a nurse, and to meet prince charming. Thanks to such and such school one of my dreams came true!" I almost vomited. That's false advertising and that school shouldn't be allowed to say you'll be a nurse if you become a medical assistant. What really gets me is when you go to the doctors office and don't tell anyone what you do and watch the MA try to muster up some wrong advice for you with an attitude.
  14. Visit  mattsmom81 profile page
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    I think we'll be seeing more and more of this happening with docs having MA's in the office. used to be I WOULD take an order this way, because I knew the office nurse WAS a nurse, and I believed her when she said 'I asked him and he said to-----". We were covered taking a 3rd person order IF we were all licensed.

    I like the way you handled it too, and I agree risk management at the hospital needs in on this. The docs who let their MA's handle hospital phone calls are dufuses for not knowing what their office staff is up to IMO and need to be reprimanded. Are they really so stupid they don't know what MA's can and cannot do or are they hoping nobody cares and just 'goes along'? Scary thought eh? :stone
    Last edit by mattsmom81 on Feb 20, '05

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