Young female patients

nursinguy · Oct 7, 2008

Ouch...that one stings.
I don't know about the rest of the men here but it upsets me to think that I have to be more careful in my profession than my female counterparts when dealing with the female population. Is there anything I can do to change it? Not really. We just have to deal the best we can. What upsets me even more is...
a: people seem to think that if a young girl accuses us of some wrong doing, she is more likely to be believed than a professional, college educated, registered nursing male.
and
b:there is a huge double standard here. Male patients of any age are expected to take whoever happens to walk through their door.
I understand that males are more likely to be the abusers...its sad, its unfortunate but yes...as Sue has pointed out...it is true. But is there really that much sexual impropriety occuring in hospital settings where male nurses are convicted (not accused, not charged but convicted) of assault that we have to constantly adjust our workload? Or is this just the result of fear mongering and manipulative females that think they see an opportunity to make some money and ruin someone's life? I'd like to see some stats on how many male nurses or techs are accused and/or convicted of such crimes. I think the results would speak for themselves.

Some people use simular argument for racial profiling blacks because there are more black men in prision than white men.

I thought nurses should not be judgmental, but from what I see here, they are the most judgmental people.

sharkdiver · Oct 7, 2008

Males are less trustworthy as regards sex than females. How many nun sex scandals have you ever read about?
Gevalt.

Believe it or not, I do know of one or two......

Statistically though, you are correct. I don't have the reference handy - will have to go looking for it when I get a chance, but if I recall correctly the ratio of male to female sexual predators is something like 9:1.

AirforceRN, RN · Oct 7, 2008

I dunno nursinguy...I don't think the ladies here are being judgemental. I honestly think they are looking out for our best interests but I don't think they understand how frustrating this is for us. We men aren't used to being told that we can't do something and when we are...it makes us angry (Hulk MAD! Hulk SMASH!).

Funny...I don't know why but the word "suffragette" keeps popping into my head...maybe the females understand afterall...

sharkdiver · Oct 7, 2008

I dunno nursinguy...I don't think the ladies here are being judgemental. I honestly think they are looking out for our best interests but I don't think they understand how frustrating this is for us. We men aren't used to being told that we can't do something and when we are...it makes us angry (Hulk MAD! Hulk SMASH!).
Funny...I don't know why but the word "suffragette" keeps popping into my head...maybe the females understand afterall...

Uh, just for the record, I'm male, not female......and I don't think anyone here has said a male nurse can't do something, just that given the realities of the society we live in, it's prudent to be careful how they do it.

groovy jeff, RN · Oct 7, 2008

It is no wonder that nurses have the stereotype as being very judgmental and bigoted after reading all the posts here.

I didn't realize that I was judgmental and bigoted! I didn't realize that I was a stereotype, either!! Holy smokes, I would think that I would know this. After all, I am not much, but I am all that I think about!! :jester:

Look Dude, this isn't about nurses, it's about the patients we work with. There has been a ton of great advice given here and you don't have to take any of it. Do what you want to do and I hope it works out well for you.

groovy jeff, RN · Oct 7, 2008

Here is another thread of interest:

Protecting yourself against complaints

daydreamgapeach · Oct 8, 2008

Again all of you are turning this into a sex issue, it is not one. This a a pt issue.
My nursing instructors, who are all female by the way. Agree that there will be no discrimination against male students in OB or other classes, and that pt's do not have the right to descriminate againt male nurses, or they will get no student nurses period.
I hate to say it again, but all of you are promoting that males are perverts and unprofessional in the work place, because we see sex first or our pt's do.

Hi, I do agree that we all are professionals and most situations with a simple explanation would be OK, but you are talking about a 15 year old girl in the hospital. 1st of all, she is rpobably scared and not quite mature, so I think the suggestion of having the patient make a choice between letting the male nurse or a female nurse is a good idea. Although noone should discriminate concerning the gender, female patients do have the right to refuse to let a male touch the. Patients have rights to refuse any kind of treatment or whoever they do or do not want treating them. If someone feels uncomfortable enough with this situation to ask this question, then I think it is a valid concern. I agree that it matters more if the patient is comfortable with this situation or not. Taking a female witness with you is not a bad idea. Dr.s do this all the time when doing female exams.

Emma Peel · Oct 8, 2008

The answer depends on her level of sedation and her feelings. A simple explanation that the doctor wants to monitor her heart by placing monitoring wires on her chest- it woun't hurt- just tape, "do you mind if I place the monitoring wires or would you like me to have one of the girls do it?" Offering the patient a choice empowers her and establishes a level of professionality and trust in the nurse patient relationship. You are asking for problems if you don't include the patient in this decision. Odds are, if she knows what you are doing and why, putting on tele patches isn't going to be a big issue for her.

I think if you ask any risk manager or hospital legal expert, they will tell you that the best way to avoid lawsuits and accusations is to have a good nurse-patient relationship. If the patient feels that the nurse truly cares about helping them, they are not likely to jump to the conclusion that you did something wrong. Even when their outcome is less than favorable.

Their preferences should also be honored when reasonable. Because the emotional stage of a 15-year old often includes anxiety and self-consciousness about the physical self, it is understandable that she may be very uncomfortable with being treated by a male. But she may not. Talk to her and see how she feels. If she knows she has a choice about who examines or touches her, she may feel much less vulnerable and be OK with the procedure.

Emma Peel

"Remove your hand...or LOSE IT!

-Margaret "Hot Lips" Houlihan

SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN · Oct 9, 2008

Oh, for crying out loud, if some of you guys don't honestly believe that men are more often sexual offenders than women, as well as violent more frequently, you've jumped aboard the PC Express straight into inanity.

I have no qualms at all about having a lone male perform care on me. I like men. I married one. I think that the vast majority are good people who would no more think of abusing their usually superior strength than strangling a kitten. But to dismiss that women might have reason to be nervous when placed in vulnerable positions with men is silly.

And I also didn't dismiss your concerns that complaints could be unfounded and, in fact, supported that contention and advised you to protect yourselves against such an eventuality by obtaining malpractice and having a witness when feasible or indicated.

To those of you who "get" what I'm saying, thanks. It really isn't a slam. I work with a couple of fine guy nurses and would trust them with my life.

Raas4555 · Oct 9, 2008

Race is just like sex, you are born with it and you can not choose. There is no diferance between a pt saying I don't want a male nurse or I don't want a black nurse. That is discrimination.
Both are discrimination and should be denied.
Last time I checked we are INNOCENT until proven guility in this country, I don't know what country you live in. It is not the other way around.
That statment is like saying Kobi Byrant was juilty because he was a black man accused by a white woman, thefore he must be guility because all black men are perverts and rapest right? Nope!

I'm sorry but your oversimplifications are so extreme that I'm convinced you are just arguing without actually contemplating what you are saying.

First of all race does not equal sex since you are born with both. Aren't you also born with a tongue and a nose? Do they equal each other?

As for your sentencing every patient who particularly requests a female or male nurse as "discriminating", then that is the most ridiculous and absurd thing I have ever heard any kind of health care professional say in my life. You are insulting the entire nursing profession by being a nurse and saying something like that (as is anyone else waving the sexism flag regarding this post). And I am not saying that you are wrong, since it definitely is discrimination, but (unless you consider all people worthy of sexual attention, not to mention every other kind of interaction) it is something that you (yes, you Nursing guy) practice every day. Discrimination, you see, is not always a negative thing. It is only negative when it comes along with bigotry and is oppressive to a person or group of people. When I choose a female doctor for my wife's delivery and disallow any male nurses from being present at the delivery, we are discriminating based on our needs of privacy and modesty, not sexual bigotry.

That is a type of discrimination that we have the RIGHT to make, just as someone reading these posts has the right to DISCRIMINATE between a sensible post and someone ranting without taking the time to ponder briefly what their saying.

Actually your very opposition to what was being said has in it a type of DISCRIMINATION. And actually I encourage you to continue to discriminate, though hopefully not the same way and with a little more thought!

christine_chapel · Oct 9, 2008

The OP's situation has not much to do with the male clinician, and a whole lot to do with the emotional state of the female adolescent patient. Adolescents are often extremely self-conscious of having private areas of the body exposed, and of sexuality. As a 15 year old girl I would have been mortified to have a 21 year old man see my exposed chest, even if he'd been doing compressions for CPR and I only found out later! As a 29 year old woman I much prefer to see female practitioners, though of course I now have a better understanding of how health care providers see nakedness much differently than the average lay person.

To the OP, I think you did exactly the right thing. I would think that asking a female clinician to do the EKG, or at least be in the room, should be automatic for teens, and that it would be considerate to offer that option to women older than their teens as well. When I worked with a male nurse in the CCU and my young adult male patient needed a cath anchored, we traded tasks. It's part of considerate patient care.

NFB2008 · Oct 9, 2008

The OP's situation has not much to do with the male clinician, and a whole lot to do with the emotional state of the female adolescent patient. Adolescents are often extremely self-conscious of having private areas of the body exposed, and of sexuality. As a 15 year old girl I would have been mortified to have a 21 year old man see my exposed chest, even if he'd been doing compressions for CPR and I only found out later! As a 29 year old woman I much prefer to see female practitioners, though of course I now have a better understanding of how health care providers see nakedness much differently than the average lay person.
To the OP, I think you did exactly the right thing. I would think that asking a female clinician to do the EKG, or at least be in the room, should be automatic for teens, and that it would be considerate to offer that option to women older than their teens as well. When I worked with a male nurse in the CCU and my young adult male patient needed a cath anchored, we traded tasks. It's part of considerate patient care.

I agree with you. Teenage girls are very self-conscious. I had to have an EKG as a teenager, and I requested a female when a male came in to put the leads on. It wasn't anything against him. I actually liked him a lot, but it made me feel uncomfortable. I didn't think he was going to try anything (although you do hear about male doctors assaulting women--whether they're true or not, once the accusation is out there it can never be taken back). I was just raised to be modest by a modest mother. Those situations are embarrassing enough with a female doing the care! It's less embarrassing I guess because they have the same equipment. I know that sounds weird, and it's likely that you won't understand. But the bottom line is that you don't have to--if a patient refuses your care, that's their right as a human being. I'm sure it would be frustrating. I've been refused by patients before for being young. I've even been refused for no reason at all (she said she just didn't want me to care for her). I never argued or questioned them. I can only tell them that I am qualified to care for them, and if they still won't have me, that's their decision.