Trying to decide between accelerated BSN, entry-level MSN-NP, and ADN

[NorthBeach]

Hi everyone,

I am a 34yo male with a BA in psychology and am deciding on which programs to apply. My end goal is to eventually become a NP. I live in the Bay Area and am starting to look at programs outside California as well.

I am currently volunteering in a trauma center and just took an entry-level job with the Dept of Public Health. My GPA is 3.6 and I got Bs in Microbiology, Physiology, and Anatomy.

I started looking at entry-level masters that offer NP specialty such as UCSF, Seattle University, and Azuza. The UCSF program is super expensive, but I feel that the program at Seattle University and Azuza are pretty reasonable in comparison to UCSF and accelerated BSNs in other schools.

I am looking at ADN programs, which is attractive because of the cheap tuition in California, but I am afraid that the length of the programs and the degree itself will not make me a competitive nurse in the job market. I know nurses with good paying RN jobs in the Bay Area, but they also have over 15 years of experience. I hear that ADN graduates have a hard time finding jobs in hospitals.

Does anyone have experience with these entry-level masters leading to NP?

What's your experience getting into the job market as a RN without a BSN or MSN degree?

My main concern is to borrow a lot of money, however, I feel that an accelerated BSN will cost almost the same as a MSN.

Thank you!

[phoenoryker]

I couldn't agree with you more PsychGuy, but I have to wonder if others have been so fortunate during their interviews. My assumption is based off of what others have suggested regarding entry level master NP employment opportunities and performance. Posts in other forums state that entry level master students have not performed up to expectations, and employers are avoiding them like the plague. This prompted other posters to distinguish the subtle differences between entry level master generalist degrees, and entry level master NP degrees. Which, most importantly, was the entry level NP student typically begins RN practice at the associates level, and pursues NP part time. The employers, according to posters, were saying that these hires were not performing up to expectations, and BSN prepared students were out performing them. With that said, it is rumored that employers are staying away from entry level master students. The entry level master generalist student does not sit for the NCLEX until the program is complete. These students, in theory, are performing at a MSN level upon hire--minus all the experience! Supposedly, the entry level master NP students, who lack the skill set of ADN prepared nurses, and lack knowledge base of BSN prepared students, have given the entry level master degree a bad reputation. If I am not mistaken, the entry level master generalist degree was born out of this structural flaw. I think it is understood that there are those who have a desire to advance their career. I am just not so convinced that prospective employers wish to see those intentions in front of them while considering a potential hire. PsychGuy, if I was to guess that you are a male who intends to specialize in mental health, would I be so far off? And if my guess is accurate, do you think these facts played any significant role in your interview being atypical to what others are reporting? The way I see things for the OP, take which ever route you can, and consider it a blessing if a route is available. I thank god many times a day for the seat I have come this August!

[ixchel]

An employer may know they're going to move on so why hire them?

Funny you mention that. I start a new position this week for the express purpose of better accommodating my NP school schedule. It's an ER position so a lot of orientation on the front end. The first thing I told them in the interview was that in May I'll be graduating a NP program and plan to move on in short order to take a NP job. They were fine with it. In fact, no one batted an eye over it. The personnel rep sitting in the room during the interview even said something to the effect of "It's natural for people to want to move on and better themselves." So never let that preclude you from seeking a job.

My employer uses hospitalists, and didn't bat an eye when I said my end game is to get an MSN or DNP. I told them I'm looking for "home" and that I hoped they would be that for me. I think they actually chose me because of that. But, I am working in between. I can't decide which specialty to do, but what I've narrowed it down to prefers experience as an RN before applying. Quite honestly, I do know realistically I need to learn so much more before I go back.

[PG2018]

I couldn't agree with you more PsychGuy, but I have to wonder if others have been so fortunate during their interviews. My assumption is based off of what others have suggested regarding entry level master NP employment opportunities and performance. Posts in other forums state that entry level master students have not performed up to expectations, and employers are avoiding them like the plague. This prompted other posters to distinguish the subtle differences between entry level master generalist degrees, and entry level master NP degrees. Which, most importantly, was the entry level NP student typically begins RN practice at the associates level, and pursues NP part time. The employers, according to posters, were saying that these hires were not performing up to expectations, and BSN prepared students were out performing them. With that said, it is rumored that employers are staying away from entry level master students. The entry level master generalist student does not sit for the NCLEX until the program is complete. These students, in theory, are performing at a MSN level upon hire--minus all the experience! Supposedly, the entry level master NP students, who lack the skill set of ADN prepared nurses, and lack knowledge base of BSN prepared students, have given the entry level master degree a bad reputation. If I am not mistaken, the entry level master generalist degree was born out of this structural flaw. I think it is understood that there are those who have a desire to advance their career. I am just not so convinced that prospective employers wish to see those intentions in front of them while considering a potential hire. PsychGuy, if I was to guess that you are a male who intends to specialize in mental health, would I be so far off? And if my guess is accurate, do you think these facts played any significant role in your interview being atypical to what others are reporting? The way I see things for the OP, take which ever route you can, and consider it a blessing if a route is available. I thank god many times a day for the seat I have come this August!

Yeah, I'm a guy focusing in psychiatry, but I'm now in an ER position - back to my roots so to speak. The hospital doesn't "do psych" so there's no future for me there. I kind of wish there was at least at this honeymoon point, lol. It's a nice place - new, clean, not anti-employee, pays well, and has good food. As early as it is in my employment with them I've never felt better about a nursing position. I hope and intend to do them a good job, but like I made out early on as soon as the door opens for me to take a PMHNP job I'm gone (with due notice of course). They seem to support that so it's symbiosis at its best!

[GuiltyLove]

I'm in a similar situation too... trying to apply for direct entry MSN-NP programs and graduated school last year. A big problem is that some schools I want to apply to are in the semester system and the university I went to used the quarter system, so I have to send my syllabi to a lot of places and sometimes it turns out that they don't accept certain classes because of some nitpicky thing. It's sooooo frustrating and I don't have that many options to begin with. I mean, shouldn't most classes from the UCs be fine? They're all accredited schools... I don't want to hear that I took the classes for nothing.

There seems to be some problems with some of the Massachusetts schools. Maybe I just shouldn't have told them I was under the quarter system. I also want to apply to Columbia, but I dunno if they'll change their program because of the AACN's DNP suggestion. I hope not! I really want to go there.

sigh. I'm probably just gonna go the entry level programs and not simply an accelerated BSN. I already got a B.S. in undergrad so might as well get a master's, right?

sorry for the rant and taking up your topic, haha. it's just that i'm also from the bay area, my GPA is similar, and i'm trying to apply to these programs too so i can sort of relate, and it's frustrating being in this situation.

[phoenoryker]

Psych guy... Congratulations on the job and I wish you the best of luck in attaining a mental health position. Sorry to the op for hijacking the post but this reply seems in line with routes to goals. I am interested in your perspective. I too am looking to specialize in mental health. Do you think it's necessary to get traditional (for lack of a better term) RN work experience prior to practice in the mental health field. People have suggested to get med/surge experience first, others say don't waste time and try to get into the field ASAP. Again congrats!

[phoenoryker]

Guilty love... Do not let the admissions process frustrate you. Things have to be difficult... If not, everyone would be doing it. It seems like schools are really in a position to be picky with applicants. I have read some negative comments on this site regarding entry level master degrees, but I do know that they are extremely competitive programs to get into. Get in the best school you can and make the most of it! Good luck

[PrayingToPass]

Accelerated has less time to acquire personal living expenses if your independent HOH vs. regular track which drags along & also is too time consuming to work. (Financial advisers also note the "opportunity cost" benefit of being able to generate income sooner with the accelerated finishing sooner).

[phoenoryker]

One more thing... Naturally, the competitiveness of the entry level option leads to more rejection. There is a trickle down effect of failed admittance into med schools, and PA programs are not the only programs feeling this effect. I believe this to be a main reason why you will read negative comments. I refuse to believe reasonable, logical people do not recognize the upside of hiring individuals with more polished academic backgrounds.

[GuiltyLove]

Yeah these accelerated programs seem really competitive with their GRE and GPA scores. Thankfully I'm probably around the average or above average; the main things now would be to improve a lot on the personal statements and interviewing skills.

Another problem is that there is the 2015 DNP mandate for NPs now, right? That might severely limit the number of options to apply to. :/

[C-130 Load]

I was in a similar boat. I just graduated yesterday from an accelerated program. It was a ton of work but worth it in the end. Getting into the work force faster will pay off. I do think there is value in getting a few years of clinical experience before continuing on to advanced practice roles. At this point I am planning on about three years of working and then applying to advanced practice roles. I would not worry about the DNP mandate or degree inflation, however you look at it. They still have not mandated BSN as an entry level and that is the first place to start.

[PG2018]

I submit that med-surg is a task-oriented job that most persons could fill if properly trained whether they are academically prepared as nurses or not. It unfortunately does not require a lot of judgement or decision making as it does "doing stuff" because that stuff has to get done.

Having said that, if you want to go into psychiatric advanced practice I would encourage you to work in capacities that will benefit your school schedules. A lot of nurses immediately recoil and said "I couldn't do psych" when they find out I'm studying to become a psych APRN. However, the differences are night and day. A nurse in any setting does not do what a psychiatric mental health nurse practitioner does. You do not manage a milieu, corral "crazies" back into their hospital rooms, hold people down and give them injections, develop care plants, etc. as a psych APRN. You will evaluate them in a controlled room, order a treatment, or tweak a treatment already in place by a psychiatrist, and you will then move on to the next patient with successive documentation. The practical experiences of my PMHNP program are outstanding and education. Having lingered on psych nursing units I can say that I never want to work as a psych unit nurse.

I think the best nursing job out there is in urgent care because you see the most typical medical complaints and things that I feel midlevels, of all concentrations, should have a background in seeing because all of their patients will have those problems seen in urgent care. If that's not an option then ER. The peds folks see kids in ER and UC. The adult PCP folks see plenty of that. The future acute care hospitalist NPs see plenty of critical stuff in the ER. There are hosts of gyn problems to be had in ERs and UCs for the women's health folks, and both certainly carry their share of acute psych to be managed medically.

Psych guy... Congratulations on the job and I wish you the best of luck in attaining a mental health position. Sorry to the op for hijacking the post but this reply seems in line with routes to goals. I am interested in your perspective. I too am looking to specialize in mental health. Do you think it's necessary to get traditional (for lack of a better term) RN work experience prior to practice in the mental health field. People have suggested to get med/surge experience first, others say don't waste time and try to get into the field ASAP. Again congrats!

[Andrew25]

I also got my BA in psychology, and am taking my last prerequisite - physiology before I start applying to programs. Im debating between taking an ADN program or an accelerated BSN program....both are about the same length...except I heard the accelerated BSN is MUCH harder and fast paced....for that reason, id like to know if it would REALLY be worth it to get a BSN vs. ADN. i'm interested in doing bedside care, so would a BSN degree land me higher pay than ADN? Also, is it much easier to get a job as with a BSN vs. ADN degree? ....are there any other advantages with having a BSN vs ADN?

Any advice or opinions would be greatly appreciated

THanks!