Help: Which states allow an LPN to Determine death?

[sposator]

Hello all - I am working on a project for my DNP and need to know which states allow the LPN to "Determine" death? I know most states (if not all) do not allow LPNS to "pronounce" but I wanted to see if other states would allow an LPN (Say working for a at home hospice agency) to "determine" death of a patient without having an RN or higher "double check" to be sure the patient is actually dead.

Currently, I work for a hospice agency that employees LPNs to provide continuious care for patients that are with in 3 to 5 days of death or activly dying. When the patient does pass, the LPN has to call the on-call RN to come out and pronounce. In many instances, the patient is dead for an hour or more before I get there to say "yep - their dead!" I see no reason why an LPN can not determin death and then call either the MD or the RN and give them their findings: No Pulse, No Respiration's, No Blood Pressure. Fixed and dilated pupils, etc.

Can the group tell me if their state allows the LPN to "Determine death" and then give me your feelings about the LPN's doing so.

Thank you for all of your assistance and "Happy Nurses Week!"

[LessValuableNinja]

For this evolution, Soldier, you will need two tools.

Prepare to copy.

Tool 1: Google.

Tool 2: Telephone.

Graded activities: Utilization of Google to look up state, county, or municipality medical examiners. Successful navigation of a telephone to call at least fifty (50) medical examiner officers. Successful demonstrated ability to write down their answers to, "Hello. I am a college student from XYZ university, doing research on level of practice required to pronounce death in all fifty states. In your state, who may pronounce death?" Demonstrated ability if the person sounds like they have no idea what they're talking about, to ask for their manager, then to ask the same question and record the results.

You're welcome :)

[LessValuableNinja]

Secondary consideration: Is the reason that in some states only an MD/DO/whatever can pronounce death because only that level of practice can check for heart and respiratory activity, or are there other considerations? (The answer is probably "No." There are other considerations.)

[LessValuableNinja]

Tertiary consideration: Why can I not have a signature here?

[sposator]

Thanks for the witty reply. In the hopes of not having to make 50 to 100 calls, I would rather see if there were 50 people kind hearted people (and I'd even take a response from Guam, the Virgin Islands, and Puerto Rico) that would reply and say YES” they can determine death in their state or NO” they can't. That would be much easier than me making all of those phone calls and spending half my life trying to look through Google to read the answer by going through the State Board of Nursing websites (I have already looked through five State Board websites and I would have more luck finding out who shot J.F.K. or kidnapped the Lindbergh baby then I would finding the answers to a scope of practice question). [/font][/COLOR]

[sposator]

Second consideration: Even as an EMT, one can determine if there is a heartbeat or respiratory activity (if the EMT cannot – then that person shouldn't be an EMT). I'm almost positive that no state allows an LPN to pronounce death” on their own however, there might be other progressive states such as Washington State that allow LPNs to pronounce death under delegation authority of the RN or MD

[meanmaryjean, DNP, RN]

Thanks for the witty reply. In the hopes of not having to make 50 to 100 calls, I would rather see if there were 50 people kind hearted people (and I'd even take a response from Guam, the Virgin Islands, and Puerto Rico) that would reply and say YES” they can determine death in their state or NO” they can't. That would be much easier than me making all of those phone calls and spending half my life trying to look through Google to read the answer by going through the State Board of Nursing websites (I have already looked through five State Board websites and I would have more luck finding out who shot J.F.K. or kidnapped the Lindbergh baby then I would finding the answers to a scope of practice question). [/font][/COLOR]

So, in other words, you want us to do your homework for you? I'm in a DNP program as well, and this would not fly with your program chair. The short answer here is "Do this work yourself". Primary sources and all.......

[sposator]

So, in other words, you want us to do your homework for you? I'm in a DNP program as well, and this would not fly with your program chair. The short answer here is "Do this work yourself". Primary sources and all.......

WOW meanmaryjean!” I'm not asking you or anyone else to Do my homework.” Frankly, my course instructor suggested that I put a post on an LPN forum to see if I could get a quick and dirty (her words) idea of how many states (if any) allow LPNS to determine death. I am trying to decide/determine if it's worth the time and effort to pursue changing the state regulation and scope of practice for LPNs in my state as a project for my DNP. So thank you for your response but if you do not want to answer the question, DON'T!

[meanmaryjean, DNP, RN]

Might have been nice if you had put the part about your instructor suggesting it in the original post. And frankly, it was your first post so we have no clue of knowing your actual intent. Read your original post again and then tell me that we were wrong to assume you were trying to take a shortcut to doing your own work.

[HouTx, BSN, MSN, EdD]

Hmm - even if AN'ers from all states & territories responded to the query, OP would still need primary source verification rather than the "anonymous peeps on the interwebs" source that is not actually so popular in grad school.

[LPN27713]

in oregon you ideally need a second LPN to confirm death, however in cases where a second one is not available you can determine death by your self- call family, MD for a "release of body" order and then to hospice if they have one, hope this helps

LPN can always determine death, unless its a specific company policy that states otherwise

[BrandonLPN, LPN]

I'm always slightly mystified when this subject comes up.

I have been the nurse on duty dozens of times in LTC on third shift when a resident dies. I have never had to "get" another nurse (RN or LPN) to verify death. When a resident dies I just proceed with what needs to be done. I call the family. I perform post-mortem care. I call the physician to obtain order to release the body. I call the funeral home. I do whatever paperwork as necessary. The next business day, our physician fills out the death certificate, using whatever time I charted my note as the official time of death.

Never have I brought another licensed nurse into the room for any sort of "double check". Nobody has ever told me I had to, nor that I did anything wrong by not doing so. When I call the physician (who knows full well that I am a LPN), he does not ask to speak to an RN, or if I verified death with another nurse. It seems bizarre to me that any facility requires such verification.