Frontline staff to lose jobs - page 4

by XB9S Guide

3,357 Unique Views | 38 Comments

Sign of things to come, saw this in the papers today,... Read More


  1. 0
    Quote from Silverdragon102
    Pizza lover I feel for you and I know when I qualified way back in 88 only half of us had jobs to go to. US and Canada takes time and the USA will take years due to high demand for visas Plus UK training does not always met their requirements as they require generalist trained not specialized like the UK
    yes same for our group in 86 and there were only 5 of us!
  2. 1
    Quote from zippygbr
    have they or are you forgetting that many of the patients we currently see would already have been dead in the old days ? the acutiy of the average inpatient unit today is ten or more times greater than 'in the old days' and that was described to me a year or two ago by possibly the 'ideal' observer to comment on this, a lovely lady in her early 80s who was fully compis mentis and who had had a full career as an rn and had retired 20 something years ago ... in a snatched quiet minute she said she was suprised at just how busy we were and how poorly some of our patients were ...

    i'm talking about basic nursing care- hydration, pressure area care, bowel care (something you mentioned).
    yes acuity has changed, but "in the old days" we had fewer staff and no hoists, iv pumps,or automated bp machines etc.
    of course things have changed as medicine has developed due to research and we now have clinical standards and protocols etc. but i will stand my ground and say that basic nursing care is worse, for whatever reason.




    don't you mean the increase clinical placement hours ? or does doing domestic work and nursing auxiliary work ( over and above being able to gain direct experience in the things rns actually do ) actually prepare people for clinical practice as an rn ?
    no, i mean decrease. rn certificate traing in the 80s included 3,500 clinical hours.
    supernumerary status has nothing to do with the quality of placements, if anything it enhances clinical placement as ensuring the learner gets exposure to an " rn realistic " working day ... or once again the failing fail of poor mentors the fault of the university rather than the mentors who don't fail students where there is clear evidence they cannot or will not meet the expectations placed on them.
    if you're supernumery then you aren't getting a realistic picture of life as a rn
    unfortunately unless they have chosen to develop their practice some of the older nurses are the ones least likely to take the initiative or question what doctors have said -
    i agree, but those nurses were probably trained as ens and then forced to convert to rn. they probably provide excellent basic nursing care.

    now there are too many "new" nurses who want to get up the ladder as quickly as possible and aren't interested in the basics anymore. the healthcare assistants are providing more and more of the basic nursing care and doing obs etc.
    Fiona59 likes this.
  3. 0
    Misswoosie to answer your points, you have missed the point about acuity and the pressures on staff, you have also missed that any unit that staffs safely finds itself being used as a reservoir for staff to be pulled to other units , I work on a Spinal injuries unit and despite the fact we may have a dozen or more tetraplegics and/or seriously ill ( i.e. level 1) patients all that 'bomber command' ( as some of the consultants in particular have started referring to the Operations centre) is that we have 10 or more staff (4-6 RNs and 4-6 HCAs) on an early ... so we are an 'easy target'.

    The lack of equipment in the past does not make up for the vastly increased acuity of patients on the average ward, inotropes , sliding scale IV insulin , NIV are all common place on level 0 or level 1 units at present , even though in the recent past this would have been interpreted as 'single organ system support' and consequently level 2 (HDU ) care ...


    You have also missed the point regarding clinical placement hours, 2300 hours of placement targeted at RN outcomes vs 3500 hours a significant proportion of which saw Students used as Auxillaries or Domestics , an RN needs to be competent in basic cares , but what benefit does the student get from being forced to do basic cares while missing out on developing skills, knowledge and experience that is required of the RN

    You appear not to understand what supernumerary actually means it is not an opt out clause and any mentor or Link lecturer who allows it to be needs to be disciplined , if a student wants to say 'no' to something they need to have a good reason why.

    the fact you refer to developing the workforce in terms of 'forcing' ... also forgets that a significant proportion of ENs were those who dropped out of RN training in the third year.

    you also seem to fail to understand what the purpose of the HCA role is, and the fact that HCAs are the 'trained' staff and the RN is an educated Professional rather than a simpering handmaiden to the all mighty Doctor.
  4. 1
    Quote from ZippyGBR
    Misswoosie to answer your points, you have missed the point about acuity and the pressures on staff, you have also missed that any unit that staffs safely finds itself being used as a reservoir for staff to be pulled to other units , I work on a Spinal injuries unit and despite the fact we may have a dozen or more tetraplegics and/or seriously ill ( i.e. level 1) patients all that 'bomber command' ( as some of the consultants in particular have started referring to the Operations centre) is that we have 10 or more staff (4-6 RNs and 4-6 HCAs) on an early ... so we are an 'easy target'.

    The lack of equipment in the past does not make up for the vastly increased acuity of patients on the average ward, inotropes , sliding scale IV insulin , NIV are all common place on level 0 or level 1 units at present , even though in the recent past this would have been interpreted as 'single organ system support' and consequently level 2 (HDU ) care ...


    You have also missed the point regarding clinical placement hours, 2300 hours of placement targeted at RN outcomes vs 3500 hours a significant proportion of which saw Students used as Auxillaries or Domestics , an RN needs to be competent in basic cares , but what benefit does the student get from being forced to do basic cares while missing out on developing skills, knowledge and experience that is required of the RN

    You appear not to understand what supernumerary actually means it is not an opt out clause and any mentor or Link lecturer who allows it to be needs to be disciplined , if a student wants to say 'no' to something they need to have a good reason why.

    the fact you refer to developing the workforce in terms of 'forcing' ... also forgets that a significant proportion of ENs were those who dropped out of RN training in the third year.

    you also seem to fail to understand what the purpose of the HCA role is, and the fact that HCAs are the 'trained' staff and the RN is an educated Professional rather than a simpering handmaiden to the all mighty Doctor.
    Well you seem to have it all worked out. Good luck with your career.
    Just a tip- try to be a little less personal in future on this forum
    pedicurn likes this.
  5. 0
    When I qualified in 1994 few of our group got jobs immediately, I spent arround 5 months doing bank work then got a 35 hour job contract then after a year got full time.
    My current trust is cutting staff training (which I provide) at the same time as trying to get external contracts to provide training to other trusts, I have a feeling I will be looking for another job soon
  6. 0
    Quote from ZippyGBR
    Misswoosie to answer your points, you have missed the point about acuity and the pressures on staff, you have also missed that any unit that staffs safely finds itself being used as a reservoir for staff to be pulled to other units , I work on a Spinal injuries unit and despite the fact we may have a dozen or more tetraplegics and/or seriously ill ( i.e. level 1) patients all that 'bomber command' ( as some of the consultants in particular have started referring to the Operations centre) is that we have 10 or more staff (4-6 RNs and 4-6 HCAs) on an early ... so we are an 'easy target'.
    Zippy do you mind if I ask how many patients your 10 staff cover
  7. 2
    Quote from XB9S
    Zippy do you mind if I ask how many patients your 10 staff cover
    32 and it's rare to have less than a dozen patients with tetraplegia or central cord syndrome ( and the consequent problems that brings for feeding and self care ) ... and of course the acutes who are 4 or 5 staff to move / log roll, get more than a couple of people with C4 or C4/C5 injuries and that really messes things up as that really is TOTAL assistance ... never mind halo traction etc ....

    you also have to bear in mind that those woh need to be up and in the gym for physio need to be ready by 10 am for the first group , so even with help from the OTs with regarding to washing and dressing patients , to get bowel cares, breakfast, '8 am ' medication round and those who need to be up for 10 am or 11 am up it's a real challenge ...

    but after all we aren't busy because we only have a couple of admissions or discharges ' in speciality' a week ...
    Fiona59 and XB9S like this.
  8. 0
    That's a lot of spinal injured patients for 10 staff. Our ratios are 10 for 24 patients.
  9. 0
    Update. are ward closures ever anything but chaos i wonder.
    ward closure will be in 2 phases and inculde a ward move.
    we downsize to half (our pt numbers&staff,) and then merge with a cardiology ward and then a complete shut(god only knows when)
    staff morale is very poor with no staff really and those that are in are fed up, i think this is normal though.
    I 'm being released in the 1st phase to my new ward as they need a staff nurse, how much use i'll be with only student neuro-surg ward experince i don't know but ill be supernumeray for 2 weeks i hope.


Top