Why aren't there more nursing programs in your State !!!! - page 2

Everyone knows that there is a nursing shortage. However, there are not enough programs designed or catered to the people who really wants to go to school for nursing. To me there should be more... Read More

  1. by   manofcare
    The way I understand the MSN program is that it is geared toward teaching, and it raises the number of clinical students that can be supervised by that ins. to 10 students, not 5 by a BSN.
  2. by   SA2BDOCTOR
    Quote from TheCommuter
    My statements will probably be construed as controversial, but here goes.

    There is no nursing shortage. There are over 2.5 million registered nurses in America in addition to the 700,000 licensed practical/vocational nurses. Therefore, there are more than enough currently licensed nurses in this country to solve the so-called 'nursing shortage'.

    Here are the problems. A huge portion of these licensed nurses are not working. Many of these licensed nurses abandon the nursing field altogether due to burnout, poor working conditions, and other issues that deserve some sociological research. Additionally, our greatest healthcare needs are at the bedside, but there are too many nurses in management and not enough who are willing to do the 'dirty work' at the bedside. In other words, there are too many 'chiefs' and not enough 'indians'.

    There is no shortage of nurses; rather, there's a shortage of nurses who will put up with the crap at the bedside. There's also a shortage of master's-educated nursing instructors. In addition, nursing pay rates will drop if nursing schools admit and graduate a whole flood of new nurses to fill this so-called 'shortage'.
    You make it sound like a conspiracy :spin: hmm you are saying that there are alot of nurses, but they are unwilling to work. Why would a nurse to be, go thru all that trouble with studying, enduring clinicals. NCLEX. I am sure they would have had an idea of what to expect in their career, dont you think?????
  3. by   SA2BDOCTOR
    Quote from Jules A
    From what I've seen at my CC it almost makes me suspect there is a bit of a racket going on. When I got in there were 400 applicants for less than 40 spots in the LPN program, not even sure how many for the ADN but supposedly its even harder to get into. I totally agree that there is a shortage of instructors but our school really encourages students to re-take pre-reqs in hopes of increasing their gpa so the school sure isn't losing money. Most of the students that are willing to do this have their classes paid for by financial aid, which imo uses up funds that another student might need and won't get. The sad fact they don't seem to realize is that a large number of these students will never get into the nursing program. Even if all 400 were qualified and raised their gpas to 4.0 we are back to the fact that there aren't enough instructors so they can only take 30-40 per year anyway. Even if the pool of applicants did not increase each year it would take 10 years if everyone were to be accepted.
    My point exactly! They make you want to raise your GPA, or tell you have two chances to fail then you are kicked out the program. Then you have to go fishing for another ADN, or BSN program!!! Oops I forgot to mention, that this all depends on if you are fortunate enough to get into the program....
  4. by   SA2BDOCTOR
    Quote from llg
    Not only is there a shortage of instructors ... there is also a shortage of clinical sites. Not every place that has patients is a good teaching environment. Nursing students need particular types of experiences and those experiences are not as readily available as you might think.

    For example, most people would like to see an increase in the number of evening and weekend programs. However, many clinical sites offer little for the students to see and do on evenings and weekends. The students who go to clinicals then just sit around and read charts. Assessments, labs, tests, procedures, teaching rounds, etc. all happen during "normal working hours" -- not in the evenings nor on the weekends. I work in a children's hospital. Most of the kids have visitors in the evenings and don't want to be bothered by a student doing unnecessary things. The parents help them get ready for bed. There is not much for the students to do in the evening.

    Also, many cities with multiple nursing schools have already expanded to the point that the local clinical facilities can handle.

    I think we would be better off focusing any expansion of nursing programs into mid-sized communities with regional community hospitals. Such hospitals are large enough to provide sufficient clinical experiences for the students -- but are not now overstaturated with students falling all over each other. But such communities are exactly the kind of communities that are paying the worst salaries for faculty.

    Until the community ("public") feels the pain of the shortage, I doubt they will be willing to spend the money needed to solve it.
    You do have a valid point. However there are enough hospital wards that are busy enough, for student to do clinicals at....The point is like you said, the public is not lobbying for a change.
  5. by   Broombug
    You make it sound like a conspiracy hmm you are saying that there are alot of nurses, but they are unwilling to work. Why would a nurse to be, go thru all that trouble with studying, enduring clinicals. NCLEX. I am sure they would have had an idea of what to expect in their career, dont you think?????
    Many of the nurses I know that dont work do it for a variety of reasons such as they marry well, had kids and dont want to work anymore, decided to retire, have an illness, cant work because they got in trouble, their back cant take anymore, changed profession, or they continue to "work" and go into management or do something away from the bedside. Its not uncommon and its not a conspiracy.
  6. by   SA2BDOCTOR
    You are right, I am also aware of such situations. When I used the words conspiracy, I was referring to the last comment by TheCommuter, which states " There's also a shortage of master's-educated nursing instructors. In addition, nursing pay rates will drop if nursing schools admit and graduate a whole flood of new nurses to fill this so-called 'shortage"
  7. by   llg
    Quote from SA2BDOCTOR
    You do have a valid point. However there are enough hospital wards that are busy enough, for student to do clinicals at....The point is like you said, the public is not lobbying for a change.
    In many communities, even fairly large cities, that is not exactly true. It's true for general med/surg units and nursing homes. However, all programs are required to have their students spend a certain number of clinical hours in peds, OB, psych, etc. OR time for students is also at a premium. In some areas, there are not enough slots available at the right time for all the students who want them.

    I coordinate the nursing student rotations at my hospital (a children's hospital.) Even though we allow students 24/7 on all of our inpatient units, we do not have enough slots to accommodate all of the schools/students who would like to do clinicals at our hospital. It's also next to impossible for schools to negotiate time on OB and in psych facilities as well.

    It's a very real problem in many communities.
  8. by   JeanettePNP
    I"m just wondering--are hospitals indeed teeming with student nurses that they can't figure out what to do with?
  9. by   SA2BDOCTOR
    I guess so, waw. I guess you will know best what truly goes on, since that is your arena.

    Thanks for sharing.
  10. by   SA2BDOCTOR
    Quote from ChayaN
    I"m just wondering--are hospitals indeed teeming with student nurses that they can't figure out what to do with?
    That is a good question. Unfortunately, I do not have the answer to that. May be someone else does.
  11. by   Sheri257
    Quote from ChayaN
    I"m just wondering--are hospitals indeed teeming with student nurses that they can't figure out what to do with?
    Yeah ... it does happen. During one of our rotations this last semester, somebody screwed up and scheduled our clinical group with a group from another school ... all on the same floor.

    There were students everywhere ... it was ridiculous ... everybody was in each other's way, the nurses were overwhelmed and we couldn't get anything done. Our instructor had to scramble to try to find us another floor to finish out the rotation.

    :typing
  12. by   SA2BDOCTOR
    Oh! my gosh, I can only imagine, the experience you all had.
  13. by   sunnyjohn
    Quote from llg
    ....

    I think we would be better off focusing any expansion of nursing programs into mid-sized communities with regional community hospitals. Such hospitals are large enough to provide sufficient clinical experiences for the students -- but are not now overstaturated with students falling all over each other. But such communities are exactly the kind of communities that are paying the worst salaries for faculty.

    Until the community ("public") feels the pain of the shortage, I doubt they will be willing to spend the money needed to solve it.

    Here is some information that may go along with this arguement.

    The AOA is actively expanding. As a result it is opening DO schools across the country to deal with the impending doctor shortage. A number of these new schools are in rural communities, smaller towns/cities and in places far removed from a medical college.

    An example of one of these new small community medical schools is LMU-DeBusk College of Osteopathic Medicine in Harrogate TN (a rural community north of Nashville). Debusk admits its first class this Fall.
    LMU DeBusk College of Ostopathic Medicine

    The arguement is these community hopsitals usually provide support for an area of hundereds of miles. The patient acuity is there.They also feel that the best way to attract medical/nursing talent to these communities is to train locally.

    If doctors can be trained in these areas and new medical schools opened in small commuities, then surely the patient load is there to support new nursing schools. This way nursing students won't be tripping over each other

    If communities want talent, the community hospitals and locals will have to help pay for it.

close