Student Loan Fraud (Part I) - page 3

by TheCommuter Asst. Admin

Financial aid scams are on the rise in the United States during a time when record numbers of first-time freshmen are attending college and nontraditional students are returning to school. Due to the massive increase in the... Read More


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    How true commuter. I did not catch that article you wrote a while back on that topic.

    One true story. When I was looking for CNA classes back in the day, one was a for-profit in the New Orleans area that tried to get me to get in major debt for PCT.

    I asked how much tuition was because I had saved a bit of cash and was going to pay for it out of pocket. The counselor then responded "No one EVER asks that... are you sure you are REALLY READY to go to school???" I mean, even if I go up to Tulane or Loyola, as expensive as they are, a counselor well tell me the price if I asked. There was also NO PRICE even listed on thier website. I settled on a CNA program for 500 USD at a work program. Sure beat 20 k for PCT which would have taken longer and in my area is the same thing. I would be mad if I was only making 9 to 12/hr with a student loan! Talk about who is ripping off whom At least with CNA there are jobs.

    But, I like to read stuff and do research. If I do not know, I ask questions and visit about 20 boards ranging on all topics from therapy to aerospace to nursing. Some I only lurk (lord no if I am going try to post around folks who drive the Mars rovers), some I post in if I feel I have someting to add. But, most, as you say will not go that far.
    mz.snuggly1 likes this.
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    Quote from ctmed
    One true story. When I was looking for CNA classes back in the day, one was a for-profit in the New Orleans area that tried to get me to get in major debt for PCT.

    I asked how much tuition was because I had saved a bit of cash and was going to pay for it out of pocket. The counselor then responded "No one EVER asks that... are you sure you are REALLY READY to go to school???" I mean, even if I go up to Tulane or Loyola, as expensive as they are, a counselor well tell me the price if I asked. There was also NO PRICE even listed on thier website. I settled on a CNA program for 500 USD at a work program. Sure beat 20 k for PCT which would have taken longer and in my area is the same thing. I would be mad if I was only making 9 to 12/hr with a student loan! Talk about who is ripping off whom At least with CNA there are jobs.
    Click on the link below to read the disclosure statement of a popular for-profit school that advertises heavily on the local TV stations in my area.

    http://disclosures.everest.edu/discl...-jonesboro.pdf

    All of their training programs exceed $14,000 in tuition and have relatively low job placement percentages. The patient care technician (PCT) program has a $16,000 tuition attached to it. All of those training programs that they offer lead to relatively low-paying careers.
    ctmed likes this.
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    Now, allnurses makes a distinction in forum categories between PCT, and MA and CNA. Now, with the exception of MA and phlebotomy, ALL of these are the same except in states where there is a distinction like Oregon which divides this to CNA 1 and CNA 2. (which as a sidenote, from my reading forums is a pretty expensive way to go). I have a slight issue with this, but.. hey.. it is an RN and student board and the things are read are very good and I read and type probably much more than is considered "healthy". But, I would hope allnurses would stop contributing to this fallacy.

    Now, I do not want to insult those with PCT. But, come on. You have paid to learn to do blood sugars, insert foleys maybe, and run EKGs. But outside of some states, they will train you for this. With a 500 dollar certificate, as agency I did PCT work. These folks do hire off the street CNAs and inservice them. Sorry to put this, but it is one of those things that bugs me. I could go into what I think is the origins of the term PCA or PCT. I have no back up or references, but I assume it comes from the fact that some did not care for the word "nurse" in a title. No harm in that. Nursing is hardcore. But, a rose by any other name..

    Edit#2: Not only replacing a misplaced comma... but JEEESHUSH, 15-20k for what is basically a more politely termed CNA? I put PCT on my facebook to avoid drama. But 15k?
    Last edit by ctmed on Jul 30, '12 : Reason: wrong comma... CNA and MA are lumped in one big category!
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    @commuter.

    Double posting again, but learning and exchange of perceptions and informaton is what industry boards are for.

    You mentioned a program that charged 100+k for a BS in CA. Now.. I know many masters programs need a BA/BS minumum for even consideration. Now, I know trades of credits are dependent of the which institution trades with which. From my limited gatherings, all that is required for entrance to Masters programs even to a "legit" college is a BA/BS in any field from anywhere. Good references and a good GRE score is also required and the keys to ultimate autonomy, respect and the key to the kingdom so to speak are yours so long as the recomendations and other requirements are in order. Would this 100k BS program actually offer that? I could see even myself being tempted. Hell, I would move to CA! I considered it in the past. Though, I am pretty committed at this point to sticking it out here for COTA and I have backers here in New Orleans.
    Last edit by ctmed on Jul 30, '12 : Reason: laptop keyboard not acting right :)
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    The $100K+ BSN program is not regionally accredited, but it is accredited by the CCNE and approved to operate by the California Board of Registered Nursing. The lack of regional accreditation might result in problems with transferability of credits and enrolling in a masters program later on down the line.
    Quote from ctmed
    @commuter.

    Double posting again, but learning and exchange of perceptions and informaton is what industry boards are for.

    You mentioned a program that charged 100+k for a BS in CA. Now.. I know many masters programs need a BA/BS minumum for even consideration. Now, I know trades of credits are dependent of the which institution trades with which. From my limited gatherings, all that is required for entrance to Masters programs even to a "legit" college is a BA/BS in any field from anywhere. Good references and a good GRE score is also required and the keys to ultimate autonomy, respect and the key to the kingdom so to speak are yours so long as the recomendations and other requirements are in order. Would this 100k BS program actually offer that? I could see even myself being tempted. Hell, I would move to CA! I considered it in the past. Though, I am pretty committed at this point to sticking it out here for COTA and I have backers here in New Orleans.
    ctmed likes this.
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    This is really interesting even scary. I know that the schools I have attended will come after you for all money refunded to you if you do not complete all your classes and receive a grade of C or higher in order to keep you money.
    Quote from TheCommuter
    Financial aid scams are on the rise in the United States during a time when record numbers of first-time freshmen are attending college and nontraditional students are returning to school. Due to the massive increase in the number of online classes, the fine-tuning of technology, and the cloak of anonymity provided by the internet, slick criminals are committing student loan fraud in record numbers.On top of that, the stakes are high because a truly staggering amount of student loan money is up for grabs. According to Khalfani-Cox (2010), with thousands of colleges and universities potentially eligible to receive federal money, and more than $100 billion in new aid disbursed annually to some 14 million borrowers, the Department of Education "faces a formidable challenge in ensuring that...funds reach the intended recipients," Deputy Inspector General Mary Mitchelson said in a recent report.Prior to 2005, colleges and universities were disallowed from participating in government student loan programs if more than 50 percent of the school's students were taking online classes. However, this is no longer the case, and the overwhelming majority of schools in the U.S. have numerous online course offerings. However, crooks who pose as students are taking advantage of this relatively new rule change. Amid tough economic times, an increasing number of these students are actually what are known as “Pell-runners” — people who disappear as soon as they receive the proceeds of their Pell grants or student loans (Lewin, 2011). The 'fake student' scam is also on the rise, and the financial payoff is extremely lucrative if the criminals manage to elude capture by authorities. Trenda Lynn Halton, of Peoria, Ariz., recruited 64 "straw students" to pretend that they enrolled in Rio Salado College in Phoenix in order to get more than half a million dollars worth of Stafford Loans and Pell Grant funds (Khalfani-Cox, 2010). Halton was eventually caught, received a sentence of 41 months in federal prison, must pay more than $500,000 in restitution to the United States Department of Education, and was ordered to complete 100 hours worth of community service.Professional crooks are not the only ones who scam the system. In fact, some legitimately-enrolled college students perpetrate financial aid fraud and attempt to take their illegal slice of the pie. Such is alleged to be the case with a former Harvard senior, Adam B. Wheeler, who now faces criminal charges for falsifying documents to get into the Ivy League school and roughly $45,000 in scholarships, grants and financial aid, according to The Boston Globe (Khalfani-Cox, 2010).Student loan fraud is a growing problem during an unfortunate time when millions of real students badly need the money from federal and private sources. However, this essay is has not ended quite yet, because many other fraudulent schemes exist that serve no purpose other than to steal financial aid funds. Stay tuned for the upcoming second part of this two-part essay.
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    Quote from Esme12
    To be a nurse? even to be an MD....how do they expect to make a payment in excess of $2,000.00 a month EACH just to pay the loan payment I'm speechless.
    No not even to be a nurse. One was for business and the other to become a college professor. No joke. They came out with more debt and nothing to really show for it either.
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    BTW, thanks Commuter. My gut, though sometimes it is a bit too blunt, was right on that one. I suppose it would be possible to get something that would pay off that huge debt while skating past like you put in that old article "the alien, bureaucratic" system of legit academia. (I like that. I do think academia is alienated from reality and bureaucratic! But, I read and am not that impulsive, thank goodness!) I am sure, with research, a durn good GPA and GRE, and 10 tons of rejections you could find someone for enough cash who could give you NP or CRNA and would be willing to make another move afterward across the country, but why?


    Quote from That Guy
    No not even to be a nurse. One was for business and the other to become a college professor. No joke. They came out with more debt and nothing to really show for it either.
    Folks die and retire as college professors! You would have to move anywhere, even at a community college in the sticks to get a job like that! Do you blame folks? Professors do not have to punch clocks and will never be publicly humiliated for being 30 minutes late, make a decent salary, and an awesome schedule. Even in the sticks, I bet you they have 20 applicants unless it is a trade school where you need actual experience requirements.

    Business is a bit more arcane. That could be anything from being the Whopper Flopper watcher to running a large distribution company. Unless you know folks and have experience, I doubt even a MBA will start out with the layout job as everyone's boss with perks and respect.

    As I said, who is ripping off whom.

    Maybe we should instead getting the pitchforks and torches out over a few folks that took advantage of the system that tried to mess them really look at how we place folks in careers. Maybe the lies can stop, and we can get a realistic picture of who can do what - and even if there is even a slot available. A friend in the military told me they had folks called classifiers that knew every job opening, its requirements, and everything anyone needed to know about that. Not saying we should go all big brother. But, If the counselor was a public servant figure instead of a salesman for a product (college attendance), maybe the problem of "fraud" would be lessened.
    TheCommuter likes this.


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