Reading alot of posts discussing "A" nursing students vs "C" nursing students - page 2

I still want to voice my opinion. Lately, I've been reading alot of post discussing "A" nursing students verses "C" nursing students. It breaks my heart that there are students that are so hung up on... Read More

  1. by   madnurse2b
    Quote from sunray12
    There are hiring managers in every industry who use grades as an easy screening device and especially if you are in the private sector that's your prerogative because it would be very hard for candidates to prove discrimination. But these same managers can't say that their A-recruits ever showed superior job performance because of their GPA's. I find it very hard to believe that your "A-recruits" always have a positive attitude and never say "I can't ...". Maybe some feel pressure to lie on the floor then come here to vent?

    You won't find a correlation between GPA and unemployment stats. This means that "C-nurses" are out there nursing alongside everyone else and getting the job done - and maybe even doing a better job than the "A-nurses". The ability to read and regurgitate in a test taking setting is a good thing to have but without equally strong practical skills it will never make anyone a better nurse.
    This would be another thing that does chap my hide. Why is it that when you talk about an A student you assume that the A is only in testing, not in clinical? Some of us actually test well AND perform well clinically. Also in my school tests are based on NCLEX models. Meaning that critical thinking and appropriate choices between "right" answers are the norm on these tests, not memorization and regurgitation.

    Sorry - but I've heard this too many times from my fellow students...not the ones I've had clinicals with...or my clinical instructors mind you, mostly from students are not passing lecture actually...hmmm.
  2. by   canoehead
    Daytonite- I respectfully disagree.

    The top A students in my schools were great with papers and tests, but really had trouble with interpersonal relationships, and thinking on their feet. I've found that is true in a very general sense with nursing students I've seen, but only with extreme high A averages.

    From my personal experience I was a B+ student, but spent a lot of time working on the interactive part of nursing, how to teach without preaching, and dealing with different lifestyles. You can repeat learned information on a test and still blunder in person, or show your prejudices.

    For my BSN program I did NO clinicals, NOTHING. I can write a mean paper, but those instructors had no idea what kind of nurse I was in the real world. I caution employers about assuming great floor skills coming from a paper driven program.
  3. by   HeartsOpenWide
    Quote from madnurse2b
    This would be another thing that does chap my hide. Why is it that when you talk about an A student you assume that the A is only in testing, not in clinical? Some of us actually test well AND perform well clinically.
    :yeahthat:

    And why is it that people always say, "I rather have a caring C nurse than an A nurse that is not very therapeutic"....as if you can only have one or the other, that smart people can't be therapeutic...why not, "I want an A nurse that is therapeutic". I am A/B nurse and I got nothing but glowing remarks from my clinical instructors.
  4. by   goodstudentnowRN
    I am an A student but if I nake a "C", I still appreciate it becuase I work very hard in school. I am very happy for those student who get "C's", they must have been studying their butts off. We as nursing students just have to do the best we can to achieve.
  5. by   jollydogg_RN
    Quote from daytonite
    quite interestingly, we were very interested in a student's grades when we were hiring new grads. we asked for a transcript from them as part of their hiring process. it partly has to do with their study skills and partly with their attitude as well. the reason is because test taking and studying for those tests is a skill that we (and that is a collective we--don, nurse recruiter, manager of human resources and nurse managers) felt an unproven newly licensed rn ought to be able to demonstrate skill and success in. when that newly licensed rn walks onto a nursing unit he or she needs to have the smarts to pick up on what is going on and to think critically which means be able to solve problems. now, he or she may not be experienced enough to solve a lot of nursing problems right away, but we needed to be assured that they had the ability to learn and delivering good grades in school indicates that they had been in sync with what instructors demanded of them and successfully delivered it. they are going to need to do that exact same thing on a brand new job in their brand new role as rns. in addition, many facilities are going to give newly hired nurse employees a drug calculations test that they are going to have to pass at 100% accuracy or they are going to be terminated before they even get to the unit they were hire to work on. we also felt that thinking such as "a c still equals rn" in defense of a lower gpa was a display of negative attitude, negative thinking and evidence of the person accepting mediocre performance of themselves instead of striving to improve their performance and work toward giving the best performance that they could. if you are thinking in the negative then you are not seeking to be better than you are; you accept mediocrity. that's an unacceptable and pretty lame goal. it was a system wide policy that we wouldn't hire anyone who spewed those kinds of words from their lips because eventually you begin to hear things like, "i can't do that", "you're asking too much of me", "i was never trained to do that kind of stuff" or "nursing school was stressful enough. i don't need this same stress on the job too." find work at places that aren't intelligent enough to weed you out of a more elite group of go-getters and we'll be seeing you posting your gripes about problems with other difficult, lazy and "c still equals rn" co-workers on the general nursing discussion forum in the far off future.
    you know whats hilarious... i actually interviewed for a med-surg unit almost two months ago now while i was still in school. well, the director of the unit liked me, but ended up she couldn't offer me a job a week later because of the census. the position got denied. so i took on a tech prn role to get my foot in the door. "awesome!" i thought.

    well, orientation came around, and my preceptor for the tech job was actually a new graduate who graduated in december of 2008. this was in april. that person had already used their 6 weeks of rn orientation to the floor and had to re-assume tech job while trying to pass the nclex. they had already failed once.

    yet, this is whats funny. they graduated from a local private college that most consider "the hardest in the area" and produce the "most elite nurses" all throughout orientation, this person told me of their great grades at this private institution, and how their particular nursing school was harder than the rest, and that employeers really love this program.

    i got thrown under the bus. i called my director of the med-surg after my second night of orientation to ask about the job, and she said "well, im concerned, you didnt get a great performance review. your preceptor told me you aren't a "go-getter"..."
    it really blindsided me. during this whole time i had no indication that my preceptor felt i had any shortcomings. they talked to me nonchalantly, as if they knew id be perfectly fine with the job. whenever id make rounds to the room, id constantly be looking for the preceptor, and id find them off in another room making a cell phone call. when we sat down for review of charts, we'd be at the computer, on the net while talking during downtown, and yet the director of the unit said "your preceptor said you were on the internet a lot. we don't tolerate this here"

    so i basically had to plead my case and explain how i got thrown under the bus.... by a student with straight a's... that graduated from an "elite" private institution... that failed the nclex for the second time i found out and got bumped back down to a tech.

    not all of the c students are lazy. it doesn't mean we aren't go-getters. ive made a mix of bs and cs during school.

    i'm not here saying that c students are more compassionate, while a students are more booksmart. i know plenty of a students who are both more compassionate and better skill-set wise than c students.

    i'm just saying that a blanket statement such as c students embrace mediocrity and are lazy and are not go-getters is ridiculous. i've worked hard throughout my whole life. you don't know my aspect of my personal life and what i've been through in school and what personal struggles i've been through. for me, graduating school is a testament to my will and determination in general, regardless of what grade appears on my transcript. for me, reaching the end of a long road is good enough for me.

    you can take your "elite group of nurses" and go elsewhere. i know i'll be successful. thanks.
  6. by   Serlait
    Why is it necessary for us to judge each other at all? In our school, we have no idea who makes A's and who makes less, unless someone speaks up and says something about their grades. I have a 4.0 average with just one year to go and I have never judged any of my classmates based on grades. Most important to me is whether someone treats the patient with dignity and respect and gives the safe, competent, capable care. If you can't do that...well....maybe time for a change. I do not judge others or make assumptions about their people/clinical skills based on grades. All I ask is the same respect and consideration in return. We're all on the same team here....on the same side....we want what is best for our patients. All of this kind of reminds me of a funny old Sesame Street song "That's about the size of it" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGLKhP_32xA It's all about where we put our eyes. If we keep our eyes focused on excellence in patient care....on the fact that we're all in this together to advocate for, care for, and bring our best selves to nursing....well who can be against us? Lets not be against each other.
  7. by   llg
    We hire less than half of the new grads who apply for positions (in a good hiring, not just this year when we only hired far fewer). Grades are not the only thing we look at.

    A "straight A student" with weaknesses in other areas is not someone we are interested in hiring. But we are also not interested in any new grad who has the "C=RN" mentality. People who don't care about trying to do their best will not be hired by us either. We are looking for the strong student (Consistent A's or B's) who ALSO has a great attitude.

    Perfect test scores are not necessary. But people who can't demonstrate a consistent high level of performance are not going to beat out the competition.
  8. by   Daytonite
    Quote from sunray12
    The only thing is that we see umpteen threads here about "I graduated magna cum laude and no one's calling me ...". I don't see an equal amount of threads saying "Help - no one's hiring me because I have C's ....". Now the info on this board is all self reported and maybe people are more likely to want to type here that they got an A than if they got a C. But still something worth pondering.

    There are hiring managers in every industry who use grades as an easy screening device and especially if you are in the private sector that's your prerogative because it would be very hard for candidates to prove discrimination. But these same managers can't say that their A-recruits ever showed superior job performance because of their GPA's. I find it very hard to believe that your "A-recruits" always have a positive attitude and never say "I can't ...". Maybe some feel pressure to lie on the floor then come here to vent?

    You won't find a correlation between GPA and unemployment stats. This means that "C-nurses" are out there nursing alongside everyone else and getting the job done - and maybe even doing a better job than the "A-nurses". The ability to read and regurgitate in a test taking setting is a good thing to have but without equally strong practical skills it will never make anyone a better nurse.
    I wasn't saying it was the only criteria. But it was an important piece of criteria that was used in the hiring process of new grads. Of course, you never know how someone is going to work out in a job they are hired for until they actually get on the job.
  9. by   Daytonite
    Quote from canoehead
    Daytonite- I respectfully disagree.

    The top A students in my schools were great with papers and tests, but really had trouble with interpersonal relationships, and thinking on their feet. I've found that is true in a very general sense with nursing students I've seen, but only with extreme high A averages.

    From my personal experience I was a B+ student, but spent a lot of time working on the interactive part of nursing, how to teach without preaching, and dealing with different lifestyles. You can repeat learned information on a test and still blunder in person, or show your prejudices.

    For my BSN program I did NO clinicals, NOTHING. I can write a mean paper, but those instructors had no idea what kind of nurse I was in the real world. I caution employers about assuming great floor skills coming from a paper driven program.
    As I said above, tests and papers are only one piece of information used to determine eligibility for a job position. The facility made no bones about looking for the "cream of the crop" is the way it was put to me. If someone's clinical performance ended up not matching their academic records (although we had references from their clinical instructors as well) they were given some time to learn and then cut loose if they could not demonstrate the ability to fulfill expectations. That is the reality of how things work on the business end.
  10. by   avahnel
    I just wanted to chime in and put my in. I am a B nursing student. (I had a 4.0 in pre-reqs). I applied for a Summer Nurse internship position this summer, and my GPA was one of the questions. I was happy that my GPA could give me an edge in this economy, and help me get the position, rather than hurt me. Also, there were 17 people who did not make it to the 3rd semester of our program this semester. 2 failed lab, 2 failed clinical and 13 did not make the 78% in lecture. Some of these people did have a C=RN attitude, and now they are looking into the LPN program, or becoming a tech and hoping that they will be readmitted in the spring. I study my butt off during the semester so that when the final comes I do not have to stress out. I only needed a 55% on the final to pass, and still got the points required to get a B. Some of them do not ask for help, and have lazy study habits, and still want the ones who made it to feel sorry for them for not passing. I find it had to do. I do not look down on those who do not do as well, but I have started to not tell anyone my grades, because people were giving me glares, or telling me that I wrecked the curve. Silliness.
  11. by   ErinJane
    I think the point that the OP was trying to make was completely legitimate. I also believe that the bigger issue is the belittling done in nursing school and the kind of competition that is tragic, not helpful. All I want to say is that even in nursing school As dont necessarily (although they can) represent a higher level of effort or knowledge. I don't know how other programs are constructed but in ours, tests decide your grade. Someone who tests well or who has a better idea of the structure of the question will always do better than someone who does not. Also, I agree that if you are excelling in both clinicals and theory/patho classes you are probably going to be an excellent nurse, however, someone who did get a C in theory but achieved an A in clinicals may also be an excellent nurse who doesnt test well.

    It's just that there are alot of factors and it makes me sad that everyone needs to broadcast their grades for defensive reasons. As I write this I can imagine some other students sitting at their computers saying "well, shes probably a C student nurse, so thats why she gets upset". And I won't say what my grades are. This forum should be more supportive, less critical, IMHO.
  12. by   AZ_LPN_8_26_13
    Quote from SSully
    :yeahthat: Is why I strive to be an A student. You never know when or where your grades in school could come back to haunt you. I have this thought also. What if I want to become more than a "plain jane" RN? Such as going into a specialty or getting a Masters Degree. I would hope that the grades that I earned would show that I am competent enough to advance in my career.
    Exactly. This is why I also strive to get an "A" in every class I take. No, I don't have a perfect 4.0 (3.667 - I ended up getting a few B's so far) but I still try to work for an A. My own personal policy is that I consider a C to be a failing grade. And actually if you are going for an MSN, which I hope to do someday, a C actually will be considered failing, and will not count. That's the way all Master's Degree programs are, not just in nursing. Yes, your grades in nursing do matter - if you are planning on continuing your education, and possibly becoming something like a Nurse Practicioner (another goal of mine).
  13. by   flightnurse2b
    let's put it this way.

    there are crappy nurses who get A's, B's, C's and D's in nursing school. there are also wonderful nurses who get A's, B's, C's and D's in nursing school.

    just because someone gets straight A's doesn't mean they are going to be a great nurse but don't discredit someone who gets straight A's as someone who will be a "non-clinical" or "non-therapeutic" nurse or whatever else was said on here. that's not fair.

    and just because someone else doesn't get straight A's doesn't mean they're stupid or lazy, or that they will make more compassionate nurses.

    i used to take my test in school and flip it over when i got my grade. when people asked how i did, i said "fine." i could give two craps about how everyone else did. i was there to be allison's cheerleader... i was going to be a nurse and that's what i cared about.

    i've never been an A student UNTIL nursing school. actually, i was a high school drop out and struggled everyday in paramedic school because i was working too much to study effectively.. i am the only person in my graduating LPN class to actually have a job outside of a nursing home/home health/doctor's office, and was accepted to a "new grad" program in a hospital. and yes, they did want my transcripts. i graduated with a 4.0, whether or not it helped my case, i don't know. i also came armed with previous medical experience, ACLS, a pile of letters of recommendation, a positive attitude, and passed all the hospital's required competency tests on the 1st try.

    i know nursing school is hard and being able to pass and get out alive is a miracle.... the last day of school was one of the happiest of my life. always strive for the best, and if your personal best is a C, that's all you can ask for.

    nursing is stressful enough without beating yourself up over grades. we're all here for the same reason. once you pass the NCLEX.. you prove minimal competence for practice. what you do with that license is up to you.

    there are some nurses i work with that i hate following and/or giving report to, because i know that they've left me a mess. i don't know what their grades were, i just know they don't care enough... and that, to me, is when it matters... when peoples lives are in your care.

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