Nursing School Admission requirements are they fair? - page 2

I used to be an LPN, I have been working on my prerequisites for a year now... As we all know the competition to enter a program is ridiculous. Most school uses the GPA as their primary filter in... Read More

  1. by   cardiacRN2006
    Quote from MBA2BRN
    Admissions officers are not looking for who will make the better nurse before you enter his/her program. They are looking at who may make a good Student Nurse.

    Great post-and so true.

    When there are so many people trying for so few seats, those seats should not go to someone who could barely pass micro or A&P. There is nothing academically easy about nursing school for most students. The GPA requirement is just one thing that the schools can do to predict a students future success in their program.
  2. by   BeccaznRN
    Quote from cardiacRN2006

    When there are so many people trying for so few seats, those seats should not go to someone who could barely pass micro or A&P. There is nothing academically easy about nursing school for most students. The GPA requirement is just one thing that the schools can do to predict a students future success in their program.
    Exactly. No one will be able to even go on to prove himself/herself a competent nurse without completing nursing school. You could be a superstar in clinical, but the bottom line is that if you can't pass the theory courses and NCLEX, you can kiss all your dreams of a nursing career good-bye. The high GPA requirement won't ensure success, but a student with a high GPA will certainly have much better odds of success in nursing school.
  3. by   Josh L.Ac.
    One of the problems with using GPA is that college classes are not standardized. I got accepted into my accelerated BSN program on the condition that I re-took my human physiology class from my undergrad. I got a low B and it was a pre-med class.

    When I took the pre-nursing human physiology class, it was time-consuming, but I felt my B in the pre-med version meant more than my almost 100% in the pre-nursing one.

    I took the retake in Seattle and I saw how competitive the pre-nursing was there. There were long waiting lists and anything short of a 4.0 was risky. With this much pressure, many of the students found ways to improve their odds, like finding out which pre-req at which school was the easiest to improve the odds of keeping the 4.0. The goal was not about learning the material, it was about keeping that grade, sometimes at any cost.

    So if one student took a micro class that was harder than what another student took, even if that first student learned more, they were setting themselves up for failure.

    Off the top of my head the best solution (time, resources, money, number of applicants) would be GPA + tough standardized test. If a student coasted through by taking easy classes it would show up on the test. Of course some might argue that expecting high scores on standardized tests might exclude those that don't test well, but nursing is a high-stress environment, so if you have test anxiety, nursing might not be the best choice [yes, that was simplistic and generalized].
  4. by   hospitalstaph
    Quote from PACNWNURSING
    I have feeling if no prerequisites were required, most people would still be able to pass most ADN nursing programs.
    What? Most people could pass an ADN nursing program? Your program must be easier than mine. We have lost students and expect to lose a lot more. The is by far the hardest thing that I have even done, and I don't think that most people could do it. A lot of people, but not most.

    TL
  5. by   firstyearstudent
    Until recently, our school did not select on the basis of GPA. They used a mininum (low) GPA and a lottery system. They found that many of the students with the lower GPAs dropped out so they went to a GPA criteria. The school feels they cannot risk what few slots they have to offer on the poorer performing students. I don't know if this is fair to C and B students, but it's what the school decided.

    While I don't think that having a high GPA on prereqs is necessary to be a successful nursing student or a good nurse, the school has found that it is a good indicator that someone will complete the program.
  6. by   decartes
    Quote from Josh L.Ac.
    One of the problems with using GPA is that college classes are not standardized. I got accepted into my accelerated BSN program on the condition that I re-took my human physiology class from my undergrad. I got a low B and it was a pre-med class.

    When I took the pre-nursing human physiology class, it was time-consuming, but I felt my B in the pre-med version meant more than my almost 100% in the pre-nursing one.

    I took the retake in Seattle and I saw how competitive the pre-nursing was there. There were long waiting lists and anything short of a 4.0 was risky. With this much pressure, many of the students found ways to improve their odds, like finding out which pre-req at which school was the easiest to improve the odds of keeping the 4.0. The goal was not about learning the material, it was about keeping that grade, sometimes at any cost.

    So if one student took a micro class that was harder than what another student took, even if that first student learned more, they were setting themselves up for failure.

    Off the top of my head the best solution (time, resources, money, number of applicants) would be GPA + tough standardized test. If a student coasted through by taking easy classes it would show up on the test. Of course some might argue that expecting high scores on standardized tests might exclude those that don't test well, but nursing is a high-stress environment, so if you have test anxiety, nursing might not be the best choice [yes, that was simplistic and generalized].

    I believe there's an "NET" that most schools use as a criteria for acceptance.
  7. by   HeartsOpenWide
    I can see both sides of this. I am in a BSN program and they go by GPA. The ADN program goes by luck of the draw and not GPA, several students have already flunked out. No one has in my class. When seats are limited and they are "letting any one in" and they they flunk out the first semester, it is not like they are going to have some one jump in and take their place.......
    Last edit by HeartsOpenWide on Dec 3, '06
  8. by   smk1
    The reality is that schools want students who can pass the NCLEX. If you are not the strongest student before nursing school (demonstrated by the grades in their minds), then you have a higher probabiliy of having trouble in the nursing courses, and later on the NCLEX. I personally like the GPA based system because I knew exactly what I needed to get in. Now I am not saying that it is totally fool proof or that it is "fair", but no system is going to be completely fair. "Fair" is a myth, you have to work within the system and give them what they want. Most acceptance-based programs are similar. Don't tell me that a 4.0 biology degree form podunk state university is the same as a 4.0 bio degree from Yale. However, in certain systems they will be considered "equivalent". Just how things are.
  9. by   lc3
    I dont think going on GPA is completely fair. I also dont think someone should get in based soley on GPA or standardized testing. Nor do I think admission should be based on a lottery system.

    Ideally, I would love to see more nursing schools go on a holistic view of applicants. Nursing schools should look at: essays, volunteer healthcare experience, community service, being able to interact with diverse groups of people in addition to academic indicators.

    Hence, people with b and c averages could show their commitment to the nursing profession and the program, by showing that they are serious in other ways. I guess my feeling is that since nursing is about holistic care of patients, then the applicant selection process should be too.
    Last edit by lc3 on Dec 3, '06 : Reason: typos
  10. by   JaxiaKiley
    With the number of people who apply, there has to be some way to determine who gets in. Is GPA the best way? I doubt it, but it is the least likely to have room for complaints about discrimination. I've heard a lot of places went away from using interviews as part of the process because too many people were saying they couldn't get in because of their race/appearance/weight or something else. GPA is very clear, and leaves little room for lawsuits.
  11. by   prinsessa
    Quote from lc3
    Ideally, I would love to see more nursing schools go on a holistic view of applicants. Nursing schools should look at: essays, volunteer healthcare experience, community service, being able to interact with diverse groups of people in addition to academic indicators.
    .
    The nursing school I am applying to bases their acceptance on all these things. They also take GPA into account. If you have less than a 3.5 it is really hard to get in. I think it is great that they take many things into account instead of just GPA or a test. I'm just praying that I get in....
  12. by   I RN A
    I think it is fair. The NS is hard and they want to make sure that you can do it and this comes from your grades. Also they want to make sure that you are determined enough to get in and stay on the program.
  13. by   Yin Yang
    As a nursing student entering school in Jan 07, and as an educator who teaches anatomy and physiology to pre-nursing students, I have very mixed feelings. I see these pre-nursing students re-taking A & P 2,3,even 4 times to get an A to make themselves competitive for application. However, what that teaches them is that if I don't do well, I can retake it. We all know this is not true in nursing school. You don't get to keep retaking the courses (clinicals/lecture/skills labs) until you pass. You get one shot and one shot only, barring something major that affected your ability to do well (major illness, pregnancy, etc.). I don't believe that students should get to retake a class however many times to get a competitive, grade - it sets them up for failure. However, GPA (on the first pass at a class) can be an indicator of study habits, test taking abilities, committment, and an ability to learn - all things you need to be successful in a nursing program. If you have poor study habits, you are sunk before you've begun. Poor test taker? good luck on the n-clex. Not committed (time and effort) - you're wasting your time and money. And, I actually have pre-nursing students who tell me they just have trouble learning things and retaining the information. If you can't remember what you learn, how good of a nurse can you really be? Many things should be taken into consideration (experience, community activism, etc.), but GPA should not be discounted if a program wants to actually graduate the students it admits. Just my 2 cents, for whatever it's worth!

    Kathy

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