Now I know why nobody ever gets a 4.0 at my school ... - page 3

by bonjournurse2b 3,396 Views | 36 Comments

I was looking through a syllabus for one of my classes (worth 900 points total). This is the grading scale A = 899.07-900 points A- = 810-899.06 points B+ = 787.5-809.99 points B = 742.5-787.49 points .. I'm not even... Read More


  1. 1
    Quote from GrnTea
    Welllll, we can't give legal advice, but the word "Actionable" has a very specific meaning. You were Annoyed, you were Affronted, you were Angry, and you felt Abandoned, perhaps, but I strongly doubt that you really have any cause for prevailing in a legal action. Don't waste another minute worrying about this.
    I haven't! I got into grad school just fine, and I've moved on! Even if I did have cause, legal crap is just that- crappy!

    Posting from my phone, ease forgive my fat thumbs!
    psu_213 likes this.
  2. 0
    Quote from itsnowornever
    I had a 3.95 in nursing school until our last semester when they changed to the A+, A, a-, etc scale...knocked me down to a 3.85. I was furious. They retro activated the scale and most people went from B average to C average because of low Bs through the whole program.

    Posting from my phone, ease forgive my fat thumbs!
    Out of curiosity, did this change cause anyone to be dismissed from the program? Where I went to school, you did not have the "luxury" of getting a C in a nursing course...get a C, you were gone.

    PS, I agree that this was 'crappy,' but I cannot see how this is actionable. Why is the first instinct for some to contact an attorney?
  3. 1
    Quote from GrnTea
    How many errors in pharmacology do you want your mother's nurse to make? Of course it's hard.
    I certainly agree it should be hard; however, I think this grading scale is a bit ridiculous.

    Do you want you mother's nurse to make an error in basic nursing practice? Of course not. At that same time, you are not going to demand every GN to get a 100% on the NCLEX to pass.
    SopranoKris likes this.
  4. 1
    Quote from psu_213

    Out of curiosity, did this change cause anyone to be dismissed from the program? Where I went to school, you did not have the "luxury" of getting a C in a nursing course...get a C, you were gone.

    PS, I agree that this was 'crappy,' but I cannot see how this is actionable. Why is the first instinct for some to contact an attorney?
    No. If you we're a C- student they didn't change your GPA. UGH. that's what got a lot of us mad. And just to be clear- I wasn't the one to mention a law suit. Another poster said I should have talked to a lawyer. Why? LMAO. I already paid for school, I'm not paying for a lawyer. LOL

    Posting from my phone, ease forgive my fat thumbs!
    psu_213 likes this.
  5. 0
    Quote from psu_213
    PS, I agree that this was 'crappy,' but I cannot see how this is actionable. Why is the first instinct for some to contact an attorney?
    Why is the first instinct of some in nursing to simply accept being screwed over and then ask for more? It's a MAJOR problem in our profession and it starts in nursing school. If protest to the school is ignored, should one curl up and accept injustice?

    I do understand not wanting to waste effort. Itsnowornever got her job and into grad school, but others might not have.

    If someone's GPA change caused them to lose scholarships, grants, no longer qualify for grad school, or be less competitive for grad school and grad school scholarships... or certain employers that offer increased pay if GPA is above a cutoff (VA does this)????

    I am no lawyer, but that ex post facto GPA change could certainly mean financial losses and lost opportunity for some students, possibly easily demonstrated... I bet a lawyer would take that case. That the school stopped short of using the policy change to fail out students who were borderline passing shows that they had some fear of legal consequences.
    Last edit by SummitRN on May 10, '13
  6. 0
    Quote from SummitRN
    Why is the first instinct of some in nursing to simply accept being screwed over and then ask for more? It's a MAJOR problem in our profession and it starts in nursing school. If protest to the school is ignored, should one curl up and accept injustice?

    I do understand not wanting to waste effort. Itsnowornever got her job and into grad school, but others might not have.

    If someone's GPA change caused them to lose scholarships, grants, no longer qualify for grad school, or be less competitive for grad school and grad school scholarships... or certain employers that offer increased pay if GPA is above a cutoff (VA does this)????

    I am no lawyer, but that ex post facto GPA change could certainly mean financial losses and lost opportunity for some students, possibly easily demonstrated... I bet a lawyer would take that case. That the school stopped short of using the policy change to fail out students who were borderline passing shows that they had some fear of legal consequences.
    And I am not a lawyer, but I am pretty sure the school can set up whatever grading scale they want. When I was in nursing school, there were two "sections" of microbiology (i.e., the "same" course taught be different instructors, each with their own exams and their own grading scales). My instructor led a very traditional course with lectures and 3 exams plus a final. The other instructor gave a ton of bonus points and decided there would be no exams--students would be graded on group presentations that they had to give. Basically everyone in the latter class got an A. My class had a more traditional grade distribution. By your logic, someone who failed in "my" class should sue the school since they clearly got hosed.

    I know of another course where too many people were failing, so they changed the grading scale to make it more "friendly." This school has a reputation for producing quality graduates. Now word gets out that they altered their grading scale so more people pass and more get As--and employers and grad schools lose faith. The student who earned an A all along now gets "screwed" (to use your word) since now 30 more people have unearned (based on the original scale) As. If that influences his/her chances of getting into grad school, should they not sue?

    BTW--this is not about nurses "simply accepting" anything...and the students did not get screwed. I agree, its crappy and would be upset if my grade got lowered. However, the school is well within their rights to establish a grading scale and modify it as they see fit.
  7. 0
    Grading according to a syllabus, which vary by class and instructor, with the ability to drop and refund, switch sections, or withdraw is a false comparison to the situation we discussed. A school and professor offer a course and grade system up front, and the student takes it or leaves it. Arbitrarily changing grades of completed classes denies opportunity to exit; it is like delivering a new syllabus when the final exam is handed in; it is changing a contract where both parties already completed their obligations! So it follows: if changing grades ex post facto is alright with the associated consequences of reduced competiveness of the student as an applicant to schools, jobs, and scholarships, then so is the natural progression of retroactively failing students and revoking degrees after they are granted. That the school did not follow such a progression is arbitrary enforcement resulting from a recognition by the school that they increase their risk of lawsuits.
  8. 1
    Quote from psu_213
    I certainly agree it should be hard; however, I think this grading scale is a bit ridiculous.

    Do you want you mother's nurse to make an error in basic nursing practice? Of course not. At that same time, you are not going to demand every GN to get a 100% on the NCLEX to pass.
    Actually, since you mention it, she's had some pretty good and some pretty lousy nursing care lately ... but to my knowledge, nobody has given her a 1000x overdose on IV heparin. Though somebody did think it was a great idea to give her prn tramadol (a synthetic opioid) on a TID schedule and didn't seem to notice she was sleeping 20 hours per day and woozy the other four.

    I associate "basic nursing care" with CNA care, because it's, well, basic. I would expect that an RN would look at a nearly somnolent, opioid-naive, 97-lb 86-year-old and think, Hmmmm, maybe that's a lot of stuff. Slightly higher level of practice. Like what you should achieve in a pharmacology course. If you want to kill people you can do it a lot faster and more dramatically, generally speaking, with a pharmacology error than pretty much anything else short of turning off their ventilators or throwing them down the stairs.

    Pharmacology-- yep, 90-100% is my minimum. YMMV.
    Nurse2BeInGA likes this.
  9. 0
    Quote from GrnTea
    Pharmacology-- yep, 90-100% is my minimum. YMMV.
    I totally agree with a tough grading standard, and we should demand excellence....I'm just saying that it is a bit silly to say that the only way that you can get an A is not to miss a single question!
  10. 0
    Quote from SummitRN
    it is changing a contract where both parties already completed their obligations!
    It is interesting that you use the word "contract." When I was in nursing school, at the end of every syllabus was the sentence "This syllabus is not a contract between the school and the student. It is merely meant as a guide for the student." I always found that statement curious and, well, not being a lawyer, I'm not sure what the implications of such a statement would be in a legal proceeding, if indeed there were a major change in a policy from what was presented in the syllabus (say a change in grading scale, change in attendance policy, etc.). If it is not recognized as a contract by the course, I would think it means a lack of recourse (in a legal sense anyway) for an affected student.


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